Episode V: the Luuuv Triangle Strikes Back

Yea I do beleive those stories because they are the word of God(the God I beleive in). If you really want to get down to it, I also beleive in one story that alot of people call fantasy. The resurrection of Christ. That is why I will see him in heaven/eternity. The reason why...............

My God doesn't lie.

 

Nor was I insinuating your God lies.

My point was that the stories that are used to give the backbone to a religion
don't necessarily have to be "factually" true. That doesn't mean they aren't metaphorically true, or spiritually true, just not a history lesson. And especially since we're dealing with truths that are transcendent of language anyway. I mean, it has to be communicated through some kind of medium though, doesn't it? Just don't mistake the secondary truth for the primary one informing it.

Which was basically my point in regards to the legitimacy of a SW religion, or as I would rather call it, belief system.

I'll go away now ...

 

<you _still_ up, kida? - kayla>


[This message has been edited by Shar Kida (edited 08-16-1999).]

 

Ol'val, all -- and sorry for the delay.

(Kayla, Kayla, Kayla.)

"Ol'val" is an Old Corellian greeting loosely translated as "hello," "welcome," "good-bye" (in the old sense), and thus "peace be with you." I use it because it retains a measure of civility, even in the harshest posts, because I thought olys Corellisi might be rather better known than Ikasta (Old Adegan), and because it brings across the sense of fellowship so much better than simply "hello" or "hi."

Ah, RingWorm:
Joke. Only that. (You must grant that after a page and a half of you, Dedalus, and me: the members-at-large need that break!)

If you have been following any of my threads, you should realize by now that faith is a quality I greatly respect, a quality I find all too rare in this pragmatic day and age. My leaping into this thread is not and has never been intended to mock that faith. What I thought we had begun to examine was the extent to which the SW institution had begun to resemble the trappings of religion -- as distinguished from the faith which must underlie any religion.

No mockery. No ulterior meanings. (Those I save for Dedalus ...)

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty, -- that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."
- Keats


[This message has been edited by Shar Kida (edited 08-21-1999).]

 

Hello everyone. This is my first post in force.net. I visited countingdown.com daily, almost hourly for months, but this site is much better.

Back in Jan or Feb a few of us (including Ringworm) joked around with the question of Star Wars as a religion. We said things like, "Wouldn't it be strange if people actually starting claiming SW as their faith and calling Lucas a god?"

Sad to say but, here we are now a few months later and it's happening. This was the one thing that I feared the most. Why? Because I care about people, and I always want them to know the truth. Those who choose something as loosely put together as the SW series as their faith, I feel are in a heap of trouble. Tell me, what are you gonna do if the last two movies BOMB???

None of this stuff surprises me though, I think it's just a sign of the times. People nowadays a clinging to anything that gives even a remote hint of faith/belief/meaning, even if it's a MOVIE.

I don't mean to hurt or offend anyone, but I speak my mind for one reason only- I CARE!!
Don't know a single one of you, but I still care. And you should all know the truth. If Star Wars is religion, then so is Batman, and Superman, and Predator, and...

 

O Wise One -

You have absolutely no idea what we're even talking about, do you? Be honest.

 

Ol'val, O-Wise-One.

Welcome to the Forum.

What Dedalus means to say (I hope) is that we are not really discussing "religion" in the sense of "worship a supernatural power." We all realize GL is not a god, nor are his movies the Second Coming (in the literal sense, anyway -- regardless of magazine covers). This thread, at least, is not focused on real-life religious concepts borrowed by GL to create his image of the Force.

However, "religion" also carries several additional connotations in addition to personal faith in a higher power -- some of which, over time, have become much stronger than the original idea of worship. RingWorm's observation of the CD listing was only the catalyst: many of us have been debating the evolution of the entire SW concept into a _secular_ religion ever since the original ANH was released.

You are fortunate, you and RingWorm both, to be living in an age when it has once again become acceptable to openly admit faith in God. In 1977, anything and everything that even hinted of some kind of overriding structure, from organized religion to government, was being questioned at best, overthrown at worst. Religion, particularly, suffered as a result.

The problem with this, of course, (apart from the observed results of what can happen when God is perceived to have become irrelevant) is that it leaves a vacuum. Nietzsche calls this state, "passive nihilism."

(Yes, Dedalus: I have not forgotten about your thread. Sometime today, insh'allah.)

Nietzsche suggests that when the established values are undermined, only a pervasive sense of purposelessness and meaninglessness could remain. However, the nature of man is such that most men intrinsically reject this. Lacking the established outlet, they create their own surrogate gods. (No, RingWorm and O-Wise-One, I -- unlike Nietzsche -- do not mean "god" in the sense of any higher power that could ever truly substitute; only in the sense that everybody needs something in which to have faith.)

The SW films filled this void admirably. I doubt many people realized just precisely how much they filled this void until the active rumours of TPM began: when suddenly the silent groundswell of SW fandom became a (terrifyingly) powerful movement visible to all. The same type of phenomenon happens with some rock singers (Kurt Kobain comes to mind); SW has the huge advantage that its actors are caught on celluloid, never aging; and the story never grows old because it is the eternal story of discovery, descent, and redemption. (Remember my earlier post about the Imitation of Christ?)

As to the future: who can say? But the entire phenomenon of SW, the reinterpretation of age-old meaning for a young, contemporary, and secularized audience, has gone far to helping ensure that there will be a future.


God never wrought miracle to convince atheism, because his ordinary work convinces it.
- Francis Bacon

 

That's OK Dedalus. I usually jump into things that I don't know anything about. I hope that when your time comes and Yoda calls you home, Naboo (or Dagobah) is everything that you'd hoped it would be. But beware of the cave!

Shar Kida, I just want to ask you a question, because unlike others, you seem very reasonable. If people didn't mean religous as in 'to worship, or the supernatural', then why even call it religion. According to Webster's 9th, religion is: the service and worship of God or the supernatural. If that's not what some of you meant, then call it something else.

 

Ol'val, O-Wise-One.

Oxford English Dictionary:
Religion:
3. A particular system of faith and worship.
5. A thing that one is devoted to.

Worship:
2. Adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage shown towards a person or principle
3. (archaic) Worthiness, merit; recognition given or due to these; honour and respect.

What do you think: an appropriate word, or not?


I think and think for months and years. Ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false. The hundredth time I am right.
- Einstein

 

Shar Kida:3.
"A particular system of faith and worship."

I don't think so. If SW starts getting worshiped,(i'm not sure it already hasn't started) We have got serious problems.

"Adoration or devotion comparable to religious homage shown towards a person or principle"

Comparable to religous homage shown towards a person or principle? This is very disturbing. I am sitting here wondering what has went wrong wih our society.

"Worthiness, merit; recognition given or due to these; honour and respect"

First off SW is not worthy of being called a religion. What is it? It is a movie. Why can't this be understood? The word of God states that you aren't supposed to worship any other gods or idols.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge SW fan(except TPM) but I am a fan of the entertainment of SW. This is all that it was supposed to be. Entertainment.

 

Bingo!! Ringworm's got a lasso around that one!

 

Yes, I think that Star Wars has become at least a minor religion, or cult.

I for one, view myself as someone who would say that they look upon Star Wars as a religion, and so do other people. This makes it at least a cult.

As other people on this site have mentioned, all religions are just simply beliefs. No-one actually wrote the Bible, we have little to no proof if any of the events told in it even occured.

Therefore, I think that if people, like myself, who want to look upon Star Wars as a religion then let us, it makes us no different from anyone else who follows any other religion.

 

Little or no proof, hmmmm. I think we'll all find out very shortly if the Bible is real or not. You've all got a little time to figure out what team you actually want to play for. Do some of you REALLY believe this pile of scripts, actors, and characters is going to guide you through this life and beyond??? Think about that for 1 minute.

 

Ol'val, RingWorm.

As to things going wrong with our society, I would have to be one of the last people to disagree with you.

However, in regards to the 1st and 2nd Commandments (Deuteronomy 5:7-9):

Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

(Ouch!)

All right. First: no other gods. I think everyone here is agreed that GL, however gifted, is no god. Yes?

Second: no graven images. That means _none_. Do you own a camera, RingWorm? Paintings? A crucifix? Do you draw? Technically that falls under "graven image ... in the earth beneath" (and quite a few Christians are just that strict -- technically, as a non-Catholic, you should reject the crucifix as well, as an idol). But, for the sake of this debate, let us assume that what was meant was no graven image which is to be bowed down before. All right: I think no one here has any intention whatsoever of casting themselves down in worship of GL's films (however excellent). (Please do not debate this point, Archivist: you and I both know where you are coming from, but it would detract from the core argument.)

Thus, no contradiction of commandments.

I suspect the problem into which we keep running is that both "religion" and "worship" have taken on new definitions over the past five hundred years (yes, the "new" definitions _are_ that old), definitions not strictly associated with the idea of bowing before God.

No disrespect is meant, now or ever.


This is My commandment, that ye love one another, as I have loved you.
- St John 15:12

 

Well it is once again proven that we are getting that much closer to the
end. We have just spent hours debating over a movie and creating a
possible new religion. (Like we need another one). Ladies and gentlemen
let me tell you this... "There is nothing new under the sun." God is the
creator and has already created everything for this time period. What we
do is modification or even imitation. The debate about what a religion
is, can only be defined by what man says it is. God never intended to
create a religion. What he did create was innocence. If Adam and Eve
would have never sinned, then the only commandment would have been "..be
fruitful and multiply." Out of that sin came God's law. This once again
allowed man to come into the presence of the Most Holy God. God's plan,
even before the foundation of the earth, was to have a plan of
redemption. That was fulfilled in Jesus. There is no other "religion"
were a God has sacrificed his only Son so that his creation could be
cleansed and redeemed. All other religions require that we continually
make sacrifices to that God. Jesus made the last sacrifice. We are no
longer bound by these constants, but are actually set free. "I'm glad
that he said come unto me all who are heavy laden and I will give you
rest....My yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Mat 11:28-30) In
today's sight and sound generation we want it now and as easily as we can
get it. People look to the force from SW and think it is something that
they can just have. They have felled to realize that it took those Jedi
masters years of training to get where they are. They even started the
training as young as possible and felt that Anakin was too old to begin.
With the redemption plan of God, salvation is always there for the young
and old. The force was misleading when it offered unlimited power to
those with enough faith. I'm here to tell you that you do not need that
much faith to be saved and have that kind of power. Yoda picked up a ship
out of a swap. You can do more... move a mountain on the faith the size
of a mustard seed. (Mat 17:20) WOW!! That is power, sign me up. That is
what I want, not something that another man dreamed up and presented to
the world with good special effects....I want the real thing. This is
how you can have it:
1. Realize that you are a sinner. Romans 3:23
2. Believe that Jesus was raised from the dead for your justification.
Romans 4:22-25
3. Know that God loves you and Christ died for you. Romans 5:8, 9, 18
4. As a Christian, death of sin has no power over you and you can walk in
the spirit. Romans 5:8, 9; 8:1-3, 5, 6, 13, 14
5. Confess your sins. Romans 10:9, 10

Having read this, what manner of persons are we to be? Who will you chose
to serve today? If you can not say with out a shadow of a doubt that if
you died right now, our next breath is not guaranteed, you would go to
heaven, then you should reread and accept Christ as your personal savor.

 

Ol'val, RingWorm.

(I know I am going to regret this ...)

You do realize that, apart from proclaiming your interpretation of Christianity as the only religion (and it is an interpretation, you need only look at Catholics, Baptists ... to see that), you have not actually answered a single one of my points?

Nor have you mentioned whether or not you carry a crucifix, and if so, just which part of the New Testament allows you to break the Second Commandment?


Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for insects as well as for the stars. Human beings, vegetables or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.
- Einstein

 

"None of this stuff surprises me though, I think it's just a sign of the times. People nowadays a clinging to anything that gives even a remote hint of faith/belief/meaning, even if it's a MOVIE."

A movie? What is the Bible? Does your crap stink, or does it smell like perfume? I'm just wondering here, because you seem to be under the impression that somehow my religion, Star Wars, is wrong, and yours is right. This is a dangerous viewpoint. That coming from a 16 year old such as myself too. I'm only 16, but I have the common sense to reckognize this IS a sensitive topic, one you can't be so rude about.

I'm frankly shocked at the lack of intelligence by some posters here, you assume society has gone down the tube because someone values a movie more than some book? I don't like The Bible, ok?

Listen, here is what I think of Christianity:
-There is no such thing as God.
-There is no afterlife
-NOTHING in The Bible really occured.
-Jesus was a nice person, but wasn't anything more than just a normal person.
-Jesus is not the son of God.
-There are GOOD values in Christianity and Religion in general.
-Many people live better lifes because they learn from religions such as Christianity.
-I DO NOT care about Christianity, and I value Star Wars a lot more than a I value a non-entertaining, frankly boring, book about a bunch of stuff that "occured" before my birth.
-The stories in the Bible are merely presented to teach people lessons, much like myths in general, they don't hold any real objective proof any of them happened.
-You won't ever "find out" that you were right about Christianity, because you'll be dead, and that's it, there is nothing after. Once your mind detiorates and dies, and once blood is no longer pumping through your body, you are dead. There is no more, it's over. "Game over dude!" Make what you can out of your life here on earth, because that's all you have.

Now, you are assuming that JUST because I don't believe in YOUR God, and YOUR religion, there is something wrong with me? Boy, nobody would know that, I lead a happy, healthy life, and I don't need to believe in some God to help that. I have a 3.89 in school, I have many hobbies and interests, and I enjoy the life I live. There is nothing at all wrong with me, I'm sorry you feel that anyone who doesn't believe in God is a bad person, because very simply: that's a very closed minded, stupid opinion. That's all it is, your WARPED opinion of reality.

Do you know what? In general Atheists are going to be a lot more open minded people than Christians like yourself, because unfortunately you CANNOT understand that others have a different opinion from you. I've studied Christianity, and I attend a Christian school. However, I also read about other religions, I find that LEARNING about other religions is fascinating, and my general theory is this:

If a religion helps YOUR life, then it is a GOOD influence on you. However, if this religion makes you feel hate towards those that are different, it is a BAD INFLUENCE on you, and you should consider dropping the religion.

Just because you think there is a God doesn't mean you're right, it just means that's what you think. Just because I think there is no God, doesn't mean there isn't one, how would I know? I don't know!!! Nor do you!! "Nobody knows" (C-3PO).

I don't ask for you to believe SW is a religion, I ask that you don't CONTINUE to make OFFENSIVE and stupid comments about those who DO believe that. What is this with "if you think SW is a religion you need help." Ok try this one on, see you like it, and get back to me ok?

IF YOU THINK CHRISTIANITY IS A REAL RELIGION YOU NEED HELP!!! SERIOUSLY, GET A LIFE!!!

Does that make you feel very good about yourself? Does it make you want to seriously whoop my @$$? I bet it does. So, let's keep comments like that OFF these forums, and AWAY from other people, keep those comments to yourself when you're taking a shower in the morning.

Ok? Cool. Let's move on and discuss something else with a more positive, less hateful approach towards things.

 

Ol'val, Archivist.

Whew! Did that feel better?

The catch is: when two people dig in their heels on either side of a fence (any fence, it does not have to be this particular one), it takes quite a bit more than what brought them there in the first place to get them to move again. RingWorm represents one, extreme view -- which is nevertheless valid, I was only attempting to get him to realize that we were debating in a totally different (secular) framework, and to get him to understand his own beliefs a little better. You see, there are answers acceptable to RingWorm to every one of the questions I have posed: but if I simply gave those answers, they would mean nothing.

As you are beginning to realize, answers not discovered for oneself are no answers at all.

I was not deliberately excluding you from the debate with the earlier comment. I would be pleased to welcome you both to any one of my threads. (Check out the P:SA religion index: Forum1/HTML/015611.html Forum1/HTML/015611.html ) It was only that I knew that when you did jump in, it would be with something very similar to this -- and whose opinion has actually evolved then? Rather, you would both dig in your heels, pulling the rope tauter and tauter over the religion fence, raising the surrounding air temperature with your words: and then the rope bursts into flames and bursts asunder, each of you falling back into your respective side of the fence, no more rope, and the fence just as tall as ever -- only now the barrier is in flames as well.

By the way, RingWorm: a part of the answer is that Jesus Christ made of Himself just such a rope (more often visualized as a bridge), between the old Mosaic laws and the new law of compassion ("This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." - John 15:12).

All that being said: who wants to be first to take up the parallel of SW hype?


Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
- St Luke 7:38


[This message has been edited by Shar Kida (edited 08-21-1999).]

 

Shar Kida:
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you I haven't been around for a day or so.

But to answer your question, I do own a camera. I do not worship it though. I also own a few paintings. I do not worship these either. I do not own a crucifix and I personally would never worship a crucifix as well. And I do not draw nor would I worship drawings if I did.

I haven't really heard anything from you about how you feel on this subject. Why don't you ever voice your opinion in this thread? I won't bash. You seem like a very knowledgeable person.

Now Archivist:-
"There is no such thing as God."

I'm sorry you feel that. I personally feel that there is and that I will be with him in eternity when I die.

"There is no afterlife"

I beleive there is and I wish that you did too.

"NOTHING in The Bible really occured"

I do beleive it did. To me this is pretty broad thing to say. If you say this than Jesus himself had never been born and that would discount a few of your other statements above.

"Jesus was a nice person, but wasn't anything more than just a normal person"

How could he have lived if nothing in the bible occured and I beleive he was far more than just a normal person.

"Jesus is not the son of God"

I'm sorry that you feel this way. I beleive he is.

"There are GOOD values in Christianity and Religion in general"

We agree on something.

"Many people live better lifes because they learn from religions such as Christianity"

We agree again! This is scary.

"I DO NOT care about Christianity, and I value Star Wars a lot more than a I value a non-entertaining, frankly boring, book about a bunch of stuff that "occured" before my birth."

I'm sorry to hear this. I do care about SW as far as entertainment but not as far as looking at it as a religion.

"The stories in the Bible are merely presented to teach people lessons, much like myths in general, they don't hold any real objective proof any of them happened."

I think these events are to teach people and I beleive they happened.

"You won't ever "find out" that you were right about Christianity, because you'll be dead, and that's it, there is nothing after. Once your mind detiorates and dies, and once blood is no longer pumping through your body, you are dead. There is no more, it's over."

Sure I will "find out". My body might die but my spirit will go and meet God. It won't be over for me.

I will make all I can out of life but that is not all I will have. As to your reply about society going down the tube. I do beleive our society is going down the tube if everyone wants proof in that, just look out how our kids in this society are shooting each other up. Is that proof enough? Archivist, you have to right to choose whether you bleive in God. He gives you that choice. I do not beleive that everyone that doesn't beleive in God is bad person. I just don't agree with their decision in this matter and that is the only thing I beleive is wrong with you. But this is MY opinion.

I apologize if I came off as yelling or being mad. I shouldn't have done that. But I do feel strongly(as do you) about my religion and I am willing to share it with anyone that will listen.

As to this comment:
"IF YOU THINK CHRISTIANITY IS A REAL RELIGION YOU NEED HELP!!! SERIOUSLY, GET A LIFE!!!"

This doesn't make me mad it just makes me feel sorry for you. I do need help and I find it through God. He helps me out everyday.

I think one of the biggest problems with today's society is that it needs everything as proof. It needs to see everything first hand. Well with my religion I have seen the power of God first hand. When I was younger i had pneoumonia. I just about died. I was hospitalized for a while and they were trying all kinds of medicines and I wasn't getting any better. When my pastor laid his hand on me and prayed that next morning i was accepting the medicine and I was miraculously getting better. If that is not proof enough for you, I have a great life. I have very beautiful wife that is GREAT all around. I have a beautiful baby girl t

 

I think we can all agree that this guy(BasherBull) has serious problems. I think that this is indeed a FACT. Does anyone disagree?

I am trying to keep opinionated but then something like this has to be posted. Is this a test for me?

His post is just more proof that today's society is going down the drain.

 

Was that Basher guy like 12 or something??? I get tired of people like that running their mouth.

 

Ol'val, all.

BasherBull: welcome to the Forum.

Considering that I have always worked to quench flames, not light them: I do not consider my own light particularly bright at all. I find myself somewhat startled to discover that another does, to the point of feeling the need to extinguish. But then, a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle, yes?

Ah: opinions. RingWorm: do you not think there are quite enough opinions to go around as it stands? I learn so much on these forums, to post any absolute stand on my part would seem to be redundant at the very least, even arrogant. I do attempt to light candles, yes -- but I have found that even candles cast shadows. Does that detract from the candle serving the original purpose for which it is meant?

Most intriguing: that you and Archivist have found some points in common. I hoped you might, in time. Going away from this entire issue of SW as a religion for the time being, GL did use SW, at least in part, to raise issues of morality and spirituality among his audience. Consider that SW has brought many people to begin thinking in these directions, people who previously might never have realized something was lacking.

In this respect, SW might be considered a catalyst to encourage thought, to encourage the idea of faith. Where this path leads, however, is entirely up to the individual.


A gentle word, like summer rain
May soothe the heart and banish pain.
What joy or sadness often springs
From just the simple little things!

 

"Just another indication that the world is going down the drain."

Why are Christians always so depressed?


They make the terminally depressed Captain Panaka look happy.

 

Very interesting discussion. Here are some random thoughts that crossed my mind in reading this thread:

1) Do Christians believe in heaven and hell? If so, what is the criteria for determining who goes to heaven or hell? Is it faith in God? If so, does an unrepentent murderer who nevertheless professes faith in God go to Heaven? Or, is it about being good or evil? Can an atheistic "good" person go to Heaven, despite his or her lack of faith and unwillingness to consider him or herself a sinner?

2) How does the Christian deal with cultures that do not practice Christianity? If faith in God/Christ is prerequisite for going to Heaven, then, are the billions of Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, etc., going straight to hell?

While I think an afterlife is a real possibility, I really don't like the idea of a "hell." Seems so punitive. I guess that's why some Christians call themselves "God fearing Christians." For me, I'd rather not have a God that I'm supposed to fear.

O.k., let's relate all of this to Star Wars. SW is a curious mix of eastern and western philosophies/religions. Although I think the overall spirit of SW is eastern in nature, there are a lot of Christian influences as well.

The one question I have is: is there a "hell" in Star Wars? I ask this, because there clearly is an "afterlife" in SW; Obi Wan's ghost, for example. So, for those who are "good" or with the light side of the Force, they are destined to live after they have died. But, what happens to unredeemed, evil people like Darth Maul and the Emperor? What happens to them in the afterlife? Do they become spirits as well? Or, do they pay some consequence for embracing the dark side of the Force?

 

RingWorm, you came across as actually very pleasant in your last post, and I think you're a good person as well. However, in your past posts, I kind of interpreted you to be saying that anyone who treats Star Wars like a religion is a bad person, and I feel that is wrong. IMO, ANY RELIGION that helps someone get through their day is a GOOD RELIGION, no matter what it is they believe, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else of course. But, is it hurting anyone when people consider Star Wars a religion? No. Does it help those who do? Yes. So what's wrong with it? Nothing. That's the answer.

Now, I totally respect the fact that you beleive in Christianity, I have studied that religion the most, and I like it actually. I agree with most every idea the religion presents, in terms of morality, if you know what I mean. Actually, in my religion class of mainly all religious people, I found myself to be one of the more moral people there. However, I don't believe there is a God, I think that's a convenient believe that humans make up because they fear the inevitable: death. I'm not depressed, I didn't live for how many billions of years before I was born? Was it bad I didn't live then? No. Did I notice it? No, I wasn't alive, lol.

I'm a very happy person, and I don't need to cling to a God to feel happy, no offense.

Different people believe different things, and IMO there is nothing wrong with that, I actually like hearing about all religions, but what I do NOT like is when a religion unfairly brings people down. Such as religous wars, when these happen, I think that religion is a horrible influence on anyone who believes in any established religion. Why fight for your religion? Why kill your fellow man over a disagreement? What a horrible thing to do, and the Christian God would NEVER think that is good, nor would Jesus, and any true Christian would know this, I've studied the religion enough to know that. Jesus didn't beleive in killing people that weren't Christians, and he didn't believe they were bad people.

My religion teacher doesn't believe that anyone goes to hell, that may be a really different viewpoint for some Christians, but it is what he believes.

He is also a big SW fan, he rules, we watched all 3 SW movies to show the parallels between Luke's journey and Jesus' journey, etc.

I have no problem with other religions, I hve an EXTREME problem with people who shove a religion down my throat, and if anyone ever does that, I'll shove it right back at you 10 times more powerful than you pushed it my way. Trust me, you shove a religion down my throat and you'll see a whole new league of flaming.

BTW: you aren't supposed to fear God, he is a loving God, I hate to make statements about a religion I am not a part of, but any Christian who "fears" God clearly doesn't understand their own religion, and maybe should spend some more time on research. The Christian God is a loving God, and Jesus was a loving person as well, neither one, Jesus or God, are believed to be out for vengeance. Seriously, I find myself laughing at the lack of knowledge SOME (very few) Christians display about their own religion. I just think, if they believe in Christianty, how is it they know so little about it?