ST Episode VII and... The Netherworlds?

Thanks a lot! Now I'm crying

 

Great stuff, guys.

Circular Logic
Mystery_Roach
Dra---
StoneRiver

Anybody else?

 

The Netherworld concept is an interesting one, and one of the main questions I have is whether or not it serves as a middle-space (stopping ground) between GFFA Heaven and Hell, or whether it's considered, as most belief systems posit, to be a realm of the dead. Either way, it suggests that death is not the end in the GFFA, and this sort of detail always has potential plot implications.

Anyway, in regards to its representation, I would represent it as realistically as possible. I see no reason to overload it with the fantastic, especially since we've seen its ghostly representatives acting fairly normal.

Netherworld typically refers to an underworld, so one way to represent it would be as a kind of subterranean region. Although one problem with this is that it suggests to our modern minds Hell, a place of suffering, when clearly that is not what Lucas intends his Netherworld to be. But there are some interesting conceptions of an underworld that are not necessarily hellish, for example, the Norse World Tree:



This idea could be surreal yet realistically rendered, as we see the Netherworld full of roots and huge trunks ascending infinitely into a blue sky (surreal), but the details of the trees themselves would be normal, or banal (realistic).

But in my mind, you take away the potential for embarrassing CGI if you simply portray the Netherworld as a concrete space, and kick most of the kooky (abstract) effects to the curb.

 

I like ow the dream world is depicted in fall of cthulhu. If they really chose to depict the netherworld, I'd hope for a similarly otherworldly style.

 

What's that like, Darth_Pevra? Do tell...

 

It's hard to explain. Everything feels empty and is drawn in really high contrast and bright colours. You'd like it for sure.

 

I'm not big on the 'Netherworld as a way station' theory, myself, and I've always thought of it as the final world for all sentient beings (not just Force users, the learned few are simply able to reach the living from the Netherworld), but as others have posited, perhaps there is another, even more final stage, where beings lose any sense of identity and return fully to the Force?

Perhaps for those 'living' in the realm, it would be more realistic, but to an 'outsider' (say, a still-living Luke visiting the realm), it would appear fantastic (and this is the view we, as an outsider audience, would also perceive)?

Ooh, now this is an idea I like. The mixture of the everyday, with just a hint of the surreal is a slant which intrigues me. It's something I often attempt to incorporate into my songs, in fact.

I also like that with the trees, it's an idea based upon nature, as opposed to a much more sterile afterworld.

I think this is something we'd all worry about. Of course, surrealistic can be accomplished without an over-reliance on CGI. One need only to look to the cave on Dagobah.

Another great post!

 

Sounds sort of expressionist.

Here's how I envision Chaos, aka, Sith Hell:

 

It is!

 

Couldn't paint the airplane out of there, huh?

I love this second picture.

Suffice it to say, put a robe on that little fella there, and I could easily see it as Darth Sidious roaming alone in Chaos, cursing Anakin and the Jedi, waiting for his chance to reappear in 2015.

 

Artist interpretations of Lovercraft's Mountains of Madness. I'm not sure what they're actually for since I just did a quick google search. But if you've ever read the novella, At the Mountains of Madness (a fun read!), it captures the idea of Chaos (Sith hell) as I imagine it.

Trebor Sabreon: Sadly, I'm not such a champ with photoshop. Maybe someone else can doctor these to fit Star Wars better?

Here's a couple others I like:

 

A quick, rather than thorough job (but hey, the plane is gone):




And here is a robe (kinda) for Sidious:

 

I love the isolation of the figure dwarfed by the massive, brutal mountain face. The hood makes it feel very SW.

 

My thoughts on how the Netherworld of the Force could be depicted are as follows:

I like the idea of having the Netherworld be abstract and mysterious, with very little in the way of detail. At least, to the eyes of the living, there would be very little detail. To the eyes of the Force Ghosts and spirits themselves, the perception of the Netherworld should be completely different; a plane of existence beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Perhaps we can only see glimpses of the true splendor of the home of the Force Ghosts, flashes, superficial visions. To a living being the Netherworld might seem more like Purgatory (and to the Jedi ghosts themselves, heaven), while, to use Dra---'s mythological analogy, Chaos would be more akin to Tartarus in the Greek Underworld, a place of eternal torment.

Dra--- , I like your idea about surrealistic imagery in the Netherworld, perhaps to a mortal the background would resemble an uncanny facsimile of the reality they are accustomed to?

Trebor Sabreon , I think it would make sense for the final stage to become fully one with the Force; I don't know if retaining one's identity in the Force as a spirit is meant to last forever, at least for Jedi Force Ghosts. I hope we learn more about the nature of Force Ghosting in the ST.

 

Just got the Making of Return of the Jedi yesterday and there are quite a few excerpts from GL's early drafts (and Kasdan's) dealing with Yoda and Ben and how they might come back. Fascinating to read. GL doesn't go in to much depth on it from what I've read so far, but Ben rematerializes on Had Abaddon to try and stop Vader from taking Luke to the Emperor, and also gives him one last chance to turn back to the good side again. Vader is having none of it and Ben disappears in a wisp of smoke. Also, it's made clear in those early drafts that being a force ghost is actually nice for Ben and Yoda, and that all Yoda's former students are waiting for him, so Luke shouldn't be sad.

 

Excellent pics Dra---
To be honest, they remind me more of Korriban than Sith Hell, but cool looking nonetheless.

 

Sith hell: A place of complete emptiness were all the dead Sith spirits dwell and there is only one who knows how to return back to the living. An endless competition for control of the one. But what they don't know: The one doesn't even exist, he is merely a phantom, nothing more. Therefore all the Sith are caught in an endless, mindless struggle. Forever.

 

I'm not sure that I can get behind the concept of Sith hell - for a Sith, merely surviving after death as a conscious entity would be a victory and a reward. The added power struggle and eternal pain wouldn't differentiate a Sith's experience of Chaos that much from the experience of a Sith in the standard universe.

 

You think the endless paranoia, the struggle and the hunger for power makes the Sith happy? It's probably quite painful to be a Sith, even if they don't understand that. I couldn't think of a more ironic and cruel punishment than an eternal struggle. Life ends but eternity is, well, eternal.

 

True. Unless maybe an Ewok is drumming on a Sith's head for eternity. That one might get to them.

 

I wonder who Palpatine would see in Sith hell.

 

Nicely imagined. There is nothing inherently positive about surviving after death. Longevity and immortality aren't inherently positive qualities.

Here's what the Wookipedia days about Chaos:

Wandering in perpetual madness. Not the kind of fate a Sith would want because most Sith are obsessed with power and order. A wandering madness would be the opposite of those things.

The Hellhammer: Yeah, those images could very well be a Sith planet of some kind. But I'm of the opinion that the best way to approach a Netherworld is to simply make it look like a concrete world.

Although I like the idea that Sith would be wandering around in endless labyrinthine circles on the world, plaguef by haunting phantasms, or searching for one in particular.

 

Interesting, though not very original.

 

I think they might derive enjoyment from the struggle in a sadomasochistic fashion - Maul's full body tattoos would be painful, and so on - but maybe they enjoy the pain and darkness, and draw strength from it. Sidious seems to have a great time towards the end of ROTS when he reveals himself as a being pure evil. I think the unending struggle for power is part of the game - thrill of the chase, and all that.