ST Episode VII and... The Netherworlds?

Yeah, I like yours a bit better than wandering in madness (although I love madness). How the Sith are caught up in this allegorical competition for control of the one, which they can never, in principle, grasp, which highlights the irony of their physical lives: their obsession for an impossible control.

 

It may be interesting if we see the Whills close out the saga in Episode IX, then begin a new saga based on the origins of the Whills, before the Old Republic.

 

Are you suggesting that they would cover the origin of the Whills before covering the origin of the Jedi and Sith?

 

I don't know the history, but an Origins of the GFFA. I don't know if that's the Old Republic or whatever. I'm not being specific. Let's see the Old Mythology.

 

Haven't read it myself, but I know the general premise and now I'm imagining the Star Wars equivalent of The Silmarillion.

I keep saying this, but we need a really trippy Force-centric movie.

 

The origin of the Whills could be an origin of the Sith and Jedi.

 

Reminds me of an intriguing theory I read suggesting that both the Sith and the Jedi split off from the Whills.

 

The first Sith was a Jedi. Are we asking how the Whills broke into factions or how the Sith started?

 

I was the one who initially proposed that the Whills could have split into the factions of the Jedi and Sith. I know it goes against the established origins of the Sith, but I just thought it was a cool idea which probably had no bearing on reality.

 

Well, for me the only real authority on anything are the films. Ha, ha, although even those aren't always full of stable meanings. Still, the films are the best we can do, and according to the films, we have no idea how the Sith began.

 

If the villain is Plagueis...

I don't think Plagueis is interested in hanging out in the Netherworld. He wants to be immortal in the material world. Further, I think he wants to keep his own body. A fountain of youth type idea, as opposed to occupying another form.

Plagueis is dormant. He retains consciousness and is able to recall the midis back, much like he was able to do with Venamis. At any rate, he has not crossed over, keeping one foot here and one foot there.

The Sith Imperative calls for the destruction of the Jedi. I think Plagueis will attempt to drive a proverbial wedge between the Netherworld of the Force and the Jedi in the GFFA. This would weaken and isolate the Jedi. They would need to rely on their own courage, resourcefulness and intelligence.

This could be illustrated dramatically by Luke sacrificing himself in Episode VII, but the result a twist on Obi-Wan's sacrifice, his corporeal body remains. His spirit separated from the Force, or denied oneness. Luke in limbo.

A midi-chlorian virus introduced and spread by Plagueis could be an interesting problem, although I don't know how that would be dramatic enough on film. I suppose a physical limitation in control of the Force, the exact opposite of Anakin and the PT Jedi, who were much more adept than anything we had witnessed in the OT, would be enough to drive the point home. That, coupled with ST scenes that borrow from the OT, like Luke's Rancor battle in ROTJ, where he relies heavily on his wits, rather than his Force abilities.

Although I am very intrigued by the Netherworld and its environment, I cannot seem to think of a great reason to visit there. What should remain important is what happens in the GFFA. If the Force Ghosts appear, they should invade the Galaxy, not the Galaxy invading the Netherworld.

 

Not convinced about any of this Plaguies stuff (if only because I can't see them going with the Muun design which just looks silly to me), but I like your idea about Luke's body remaining and there being a threat to the force itself.

 

Palpatine's appearance changes quite dramatically throughout the Saga, so why couldn't Plagueis's?

 

Thanks. It's funny you say that, although I have no problem with it personally (Plaguies the Muun), there are others whose opinions I respect that have the same issue. So, I don't know. But, yeah, fun stuff.

purplerain: True. I gather there is a reason Lucas made Plagueis a Muun. I believe that the novel mentions Plagueis's desire to retain his own body. He's not interested in Force-Essence. Near the end he wore a breathing mask, which gives him character. Like I said, I have no problem with it, but others hate Voldemort. I don't watch Harry Potter movies, so it doesn't get in my way. Whatever Lucas wants is fine with me.

 

I like the addition of the breathing mask, actually. But you know what others will say: been there, done that.

The right effects and design could change my mind about how threatening a Muun might be able to look. But maybe my best answer is that if Plagueis can create force-powerful beings from midi-manipulation, then he might simply have designed himself a perfect body to inhabit. Part of what would make the body perfect would be that it didn't look anything like himself.

 

I'm not opposed to Plagueis returning as a Munn (if he returns). However, if you take the Sith essence transfer, sprinkle in a bit of cloning technology added with midi-manipulation, you can get a whole new Plagueis. I'm also intrigued by pure possession as I think Circular Logic and possibly others have suggested.

 

Plagueis's Muun body might no longer look like a Muun after all that Dark Side use.

The problem with essence transfer is that you might as well have Sidious do that.

 

Well, it's only my personal taste. It's tricky with Plaguies because he's cannon within the movies, but also EU and I just can't see the VII team being constrained by anything EU. I mean, this is all massive speculation anyway and we have no idea if the Netherworld or resurrected Sith are going to feature in the slightest. If they are doing something along those lines it might just be easier to create a new ancient Sith, or go with Palps. Or maybe they would just go with Plaguies as he is, or they could rework him and simply use the name. All fun to debate though.

Purplerain - yes. Much easier link for audiences.

 

and a more strongly connected Saga

 

Speaking for myself, I would rather see Sidious return in the ST than Plagueis, although I would like for Plagueis's legacy to play some kind of role in the movies, and for him to show up in one of the standalone films.

 

Plagueis did teach Sidious everything he knew, so I agree.

 

Sidious did a fair amount of teaching Plagueis, too.

 

Sidious returning is easier for the audience to understand than Plagueis?

Sidious who was thrown down a shaft and who people believe exploded?

Plagueis who was simply reported dead, by a reporter who is also a master of lies, and who Plagueis may have fooled?

I think the audience would have just an easy of a time, if not easier, with Plagueis apearing than Sidious.

 

Only because everyone knows who Sidious/ Palpatine is with zero explanation. I'd wager if you conducted a poll, 99% of the general public wouldn't have a clue who Plaguies was.

 

I asked a non-fan about Plagueis's body surviving, and the non-fan said it sounded like a desparate attempt to make the story "not over". I asked the same non-fan about the spirit of either Sidious or Plaguies surviving, and the non-fan said, "you never know".