Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.
Don't you mean The Great Spew War? The amount of saliva those guys were throwing around....
If I were Snoke, I'd say that everything Kylo and I did was to save my species (I'll call them Snokers) and the galaxy from some evil threat in the Unknown Regions. This threat, uh, eats light-side Force users to survive, so killing the Jedi class and Luke was necessary to save the galaxy. Starkiller base needed to be tested if it's to be used against these invaders, and Han just got in the way. But we're really heroes trying to save the galaxy.
Hey, it works for Thrawn...
Leia's political opponents: "Leia is Snoke, just like Palpatine was Darth Sidious! She created the First Order to justify re-militarizing the Republic! We all remember what happened last time we had an army!"
Really? You well old bro.
The fandom will eat it up.
This is the second time I've ever agreed with you about anything, next to that time you went down on that racist dude about Rex.
Well I guess I probably agreed with you about something else but it was probably boring and not controversial so I forgot.
This is like the nastiest compliment I've ever seen.
We don't even need a Leia is Snoke theory here. Her freaking son is a leader in the First Order. It's a family plot for Leia to gain power, with her and Ben putting on a show so that the New Republic will be tricked into giving Leia emergency powers. Remember fellow Senators, she is Vader's daughter.
And Ben killing Han? Leia's marital fights were well known in the Republic, and she decided to get her son to kill him. For Leia, it's cheaper than a divorce--that's what the New Republic senators will be saying.
Kylo Ren, the entire First Order, are the jerk offs that marched with tiki torches chanting "blood and soil" in Charlottesville. The ST is ridiculously prescient with its neo-Imperials, frankly.
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While I get this complaint, I'd also note that in all those instances Finn was fighting to save his own life rather than fighting for the Resistance. Takodana? Stormtroopers attacked him; he fought back. Starkiller Base? He shot the stormtroopers shooting at him and Rey as they were fleeing the oscillator.
Just how loyal are these First Order stormtroopers? It's not just Finn--Phasma caves very easily when threatened and gives up the shield for Starkiller Base. Shouldn't she be proclaiming she'll die for the First Order?
Still though, there's no hand-wringing before he goes into battle, especially when he's helping to plan the assault on Starkiller Base, a place he worked in his previous life. But that's why Star Wars typically ducks those sorts of moral quandaries. The stormtrooper-turned-good concept is interesting, but I don't know how well it lends itself to space-adventure shoot-em-up action.
Not that I mind; I prefer Star Wars to breeze past those kind of scenes. We never see anything of Leia's reaction to Alderaan's destruction, and she never mentions it other than to tell Willard she doesn't have time to talk about it. That feels particularly part of Star Wars DNA to me, and why Finn's mid-battlefield shock seemed a little alien to the franchise.
Well yeah, but just because he deserts doesn't mean he automatically loses his training. He's been drilled that when he comes under fire, he shoots back. And as to the Starkiller Base assault, I thought it was extremely obvious that he was doing it explicitly to rescue Rey; it was means to an end. And besides, he left the First Order because he has a conscience, and SKB destroys planets, so yeah, he worked there, but I don't imagine he would be too sorry to see it go. But his ultimate goal was still saving Rey, and the Resistance just so happened to be his ride.
You know, this could be explained, even realistically, that Finn was really in love with Rey. He'd do anything to save her and wouldn't hesitate in cutting down former friends to do so--a "light side" version of Anakin's raid on the Jedi temple.
I have no idea if this is the route they are going to take with those characters. Maybe not. But if you look at it from this lens, it becomes a lot more believable Finn wouldn't hesitate in fighting his former comrades. Otherwise, like you said, it's not really believable.
I doubt JJ and Kasdan even did this kind of character analysis the way we do. Finn also acts way too normal for someone who until recently was named FN-2187. He should be more like Teal'c from Stargate.
Sure, but he presumably knew other stormtroopers and sanitation workers there, so his stormtrooper-with-a-conscience character takes a bit of a hit there. It isn't as if Luke joined the Imperial Academy and spent a few rotations sweeping the floors on the Death Star before blowing it up.
Before the Awakening also shows that Finn never really fit in, and even his "closest" friend, Slip, mocked him openly for not fitting in. So...
Yes, they weren't going for, "I love my friends and comrades but this is wrong."
They were going for, "I hate these people and everything they stand for."
Less Rogue and Mystique and more Scarlet Witch and Magneto.
Really? I saw a prison fight. The Stormtrooper in front of him was keeping him safe. Poe killed his guardian. Poe becomes his guardian.
It would have made infinitely more sense if he was acting heroically (for the F.O.), dragging his downed friend to safety, killing those firing on him and his brothers/sisters, actually being a stand out soldier. Then Kylo Ren starts striking down unarmed and surrendered people and ordering a death sentence for all of them. That should have been the breaking point for Finn. Not his friend (that wasn't even his friend) getting shot. A lifetime of being brainwashed that the people they are fighting are the ruthless killers, only to discover it is a 180 degree lie.
The only thing they seemed to truly emphasize was he was scared and love struck which sometimes those clashed. His fear of the F.O. was about their abilities more than their methods. He, himself, was essentially Jar Jar comic relief.
So glad to have the dude that directed that coming back to close up the trilogy.
Big epic finale
Rey: You're wrong, Ben.
Finn: Totally. I mean, come on.
Kylo Ren: Yeah. Come on.
Snoke: When you put it like that.
Luke then jumps out from behind a CGI rock and slaughters them all. Why did he do that? Mystery Box. Tune in. Same holiday season. Same director.
Yeah, he's technically a superb stormtrooper but he has a conscience, they delve into it a bit more in Before the Awakening, and the Trooper who falls is supposed to be Finn's buddy that he worked closely with in his unit who was always lagging behind and Finn kept trying to save him. So that's a big reason for his switch.
And yet it was his first sign of trouble. Ok ....
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I dunno, a massive massacre of innocent people is a pretty decent place for, "Not what I was raised to be."
His turn came before that. He turned while both sides were still shooting at one another. Read what I posted. It makes what you are suggesting a reality instead of a corrupted revision.
FN-2187 didn't immediately "turn" when his buddy got shot, he was frazzled and disoriented. Afterwards, he let a local Jakku resident go, which was cut from the film but in the novelization so CANON. His full bore turn is when he refuses to fire. And helps lets Poe escape. Letting the Jakku resident go is light treason compared to his later actions. Finn is a good guy and the First Order, even though they raised and trained him, are not what he wants to do.
He doesn't turn until he frees Poe and he doesn't actually turn then. Finn isn't trying to defect, he's trying to DESERT.
There is a substantive difference between treason and desertion.
Mind you, yes, he gives aid to the enemy but that's not the goal.