A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

I've been pretty consistent.

The larger point. Finn's arc as presented by JJ Abrams was bad. Considering Finn is a top tier character in this ST, that's a pretty bad mark on the director/writer to tie this ST all up.

Finn was Jar Jar.
These lines would actually work for him in TFA
Count me outta dis one.
What mesa sayin?
Dis is nutsen.
Oh, First Order!

Helping Rey in the Falcon:
buta small part of it would be mesa... clumsy.

Rey is kidnapped:
Wesa warriors.

Was his first mission literally at the equivalent to Kylo's 501st raid on Jakku? Because that's how it came off. He was ready to run and quit almost as soon as the ship's doors opened.

Just really poorly handled. It is almost like they were afraid to have him even shoot at (and Stormtrooper miss) a "good guy". Which makes the "never a problem before" banter seem at odds with his character. His arc made NO SENSE.

And this isn't on Boyega. Boyega was one of my favorite actors in that movie. The look on his face as Kylo went for his first strike could not have been acted better.

 

Yes, actually it is his first mission in canon.

 

Regarding Finn, I think this video sums up pretty well what many of us feel about the way Finn's story was handled in the movie and in the context of the Saga:



His “turning” moment - or more exactly, the moment that fhe filmmakers chose to emphasize as the one that marked his turning - was the death of his comrade. The problem is, there is a dissonance in the storytelling of a stormtrooper shocked at his comrade’s death that quickly transforms into a guy who is more than happy to blast fellow troopers to smithereens.
It’s like there was an entire character development there that the movie completely skipped over.

But anyway, I do wish that this hinted storyline, “stormtroopers that were kidnapped as kids and brainwashed may be innocent good people” that bizarrely TFA completely shrugged it off and quickly, is acknowledged in TLJ and Rian does something interesting with it.

 

Nobody cares about the stormtroopers. The whole morality of the Jedi using clonetroopers as slaves is only touched on in 1 episode of the Clone Wars cartoon, and never even mentioned in the movies themselves. Considering how the characters always go on and on about whether something or other is against the Jedi code, you think it would have come up more often.

 

I think the purpose of the clone army was mainly to give an idea of how far the Jedi/Republic was willing to go to win the war as it was a huge plotpoint in the trilogy - and, I would say, it accomplished its goals, even if there was no character there to explicitly tell the audience “this is a slave-army and they have feelings!”. I mean, no clone was part of the main story, so their feels didn't really matter. GL not having the falling Jedi Order explicitly acknowledging the questionable morality of a clone army doesn't mean the audience didn't, and the way it was shot and edited was clearly meant to give off and uncomfortable feeling.

The problem was when the third movie tried to make Cody Obi-Wan’s pal for dramatic effect, which was not only unearned and little out of the blue, it also made the clones’ turn a little jarring.

 

I read and I disagree. It happens.

 

The clones obey any order with out question. They were given an order and they obeyed it. Always made sense to me

 

That tended to be the prevailing view until the Clone Wars CGI series mucked that up by having clones disobey orders. Then they needed to add that brain chip explanation for Order 66...

 

The EU had shown clones disobeying exceptionally foolish orders, long before TCW. There was even a novel (Dark Lord) which showed a few clones disobeying Order 66.

They were more obedient that regular troops- but never perfectly obedient.

 

The clones in Dark Lord that disobeyed Order 66 were a squad of commandos, not regular troopers. Commandos are engineered to be more independent than regular clones.

 

Is that still canon?

 

True. However, some commandos are promoted from the regular troopers in TCW.

 

Legends.

In which episode(s)? It's been a while since I've watched TCW.

 

Echo and Fives, at the end of the Season 3 episode ARC Troopers.

 

Yeah

Also the CG Clone Wars never really fit into legends fully (ryloth springs to mind)

I do like the idea that it is a in universe tv show based off real events (for legends, for Cannon, it's cannon)

 

There are so many plot points (Sifo-Dyas, Palpatine's internal Sith musings, Mortis stuff) that an in-universe animator just wouldn't know.

 

Depends what year it was made and they can just make stuff up

Iti is just my head cannon, that way I can take the good stuff from the show and leave the bad haha

 

Lol. Thanks? I usually like your posts, so I hope you feel guilty

Right!?

Sent from my Moto X-Wing

 

As for Finn and his fellow stormtroopers - based on what we have seen of them, I think something like this is probably the case:

Spoiler: Mild swearing and I want to be on the safe side

 

Can't see it.

 

So Domhall Gleeson aka General Hux is in Mother! and he goes completely nuts. Which is why I hope that Hux gets a chance to go nuts in The Last Jedi. He had about two minutes of going nuts in The Force Awakens, one of my various favourite scenes, and while he's good at playing the stiff, stern commander, you really wanna let him off the chain at some point cuz he's quite good at that. Also it's kind of fun because we usually have the crazy Dark Side folk and the quiet, reserved Imperial / First Order commanders, but I quite like the notion that the First Order commander guys can also just be as unhinged as the crazy dark side folk.

The crazy zealot vibe of the FO is one of the various things I dig me about the ST. They're Imperial cosplayers but they seem to run a bit hotter than your average Imperial when it comes down to it. They holler a lot, like Hux's "LAST DAY OF THE REPUBLIC!" or TR-8R "TRAITOR!!" (and later Kylo's "TRAITOR!!!!!!" but he's not FO rank and file) These folk be angry!

 

I can't now either. Odd, it was working before, and it is past the time allowed for me to edit it.

Well, here is the link to the page: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0603.html

 

So - basically, like this:

http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg

but the "nasty little orphan" clones are actually kidnap victims rather than clones?

 

Are we still talking about Finn shooting stormtroopers? I still don't get how he's supposed to have some kind of crisis of conscience when everyone he knows is a sociopathic brainwashed loon who want to kill lots of people in various different ways--and they want to kill him for deserting them.

 

Actually it isn't. Its his second mission. His first mission was in the Before the Awakening book.