A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

If done right, I would be ok with Rey turning to the darkside.

Taking us on a route that is surprising for the audience. Instead of being apart of a future Jedi order, she takes a different and darker path.

Done in a manner that isn't a copy of Anakin's fall. No need to see her kill children. Not having a "Rey is dead, I am Darth *insert whatever*". Rey not becoming half man half machine and wearing dark clothing.

No Sith copy cat like Kylo Ren.

What if this trilogy ends with a dark Rey and a Ben Solo walking towards the path of light?

 

Kylo is the real protagonist in this new trilogy
I would not be surprised to see Rey dead / turn evil and see Kylo at the end of Episode IX creating a new order where they are neither Jedi or Sith

I am very sure that Kylo will gain the leading role

 

That would be an awful decision, and I don't see KK being that foolish.

Rey turning dark, with what's been set up, just isn't believable imo. And again, counterproductive.

 

Kriffing trailers ... just when I'm properly cynical and grumbly about SW, we go and get one of these.

As eager as I am to see what's going on with Rey, Luke, etc., I have to say that Kylo is ... more than tolerable here.

Spoiler

There's actual depth and conflict going on with our l'il Vader wanna-be, here, and if his arc with Leia is handled properly, it could very well be a nice B-plot. True, we didn't get much evidence of Kylo's potential in TFA, but the frozen blaster bolt may be getting paid off in the TLJ flashback.

Also, I'm calling it now - the last bit is cleverly-spliced double-fakery. Look closely at Kylo in the hand-reaching scene, and the effects behind him. He lacks his metal scar, and that mess behind him looks more lava than salt-planet. Force-vision of Mustafar, anyone?

I'm actually more concerned with the Bespin vibe going on where Rey is concerned - I mean, SERIOUSLY, Farmboy, you don't tell her "hey, don't run off and fight the BBEG by yourself, don't you see this hand is made of METAL"? I just don't want the inevitable reveal to be unforgivably stupid.

I'm less peeved than some might be AFA Luke being wary of training another student, especially after that incredible shot of him clawing his way out of the ruined praxeum. Who can blame him for going all hermit when his ungrateful nephew dropped a building on him?

Leia looks good; Finn vs. Phasma is EPIC; perhaps a bit too much CGI with Chewie in that one shot, but it wasn't hideous; and Porg reveal!!!

Perhaps best of all are the visuals. Crait looks stunning (and that callback to ESB and Hoth, with Leia by the base door, gave me chills - THAT'S how to PROPERLY use nostalgia, JJ ).

I'm more convinced than ever that TLJ will stand out 10 years from now as the best of the ST - even if Abrams does somehow put proper spark into Ep. 9, Johnson's sheer eye for unique landscapes, etc. will put TLJ head and shoulders above the others, IMHO.

 

God there were so many comparisons to ESB in that trailer it wasn't funny. As for those dire wolves and the Porg - no just no

 

What? Someone mentioned that Luke though Kylo was the Chosen One?! Oh, fercrissake...

 

1. Does anyone know what the metal thing is on Kylo Ren's face? Is it a scar?

2. I'm with fett 4 on Porgs....

3. It was visually stunning and, even though I was looking for unrelated scenes being cut together, it still played with my emotions.

4. I'm glad the dialogue was still teasing a lot because I wasn't excited about TFA and felt nauseous about it until I spoiled myself silly the day it came out. I'm feeling a bit more hopeful about this one. I didn't see as many ESB throwbacks, and knowing that Rey's raw power is so strong intrigues me.

 

Also if Luke's "brilliant plan" for handling a young woman with immense raw power and desperately in need of guidance is to, basically tell her to get lost, well he deserves whatever crap comes his way. Because that'd just be stupid on his part.

 

Highly doubt this. I can already see the huge backlash that would put Star Wars on hiatus for years.

First TFA trailers misled that Finn was the new Luke (Jedi hero).
But he was instead a misdirect for Rey.
End of TFA, Rey is the new Luke.
Finally she is just a misdirect for Kylo.
Rey + Finn gives us Ren.

Or more bluntly. A black dude was passed over for a white woman that was ultimately passed over for a white man.

Let's just go all out and Luke is the new Luke so the Millennial white male is passed over for an old white man.

Yeah. WILL NOT HAPPEN. It doesn't matter if they come up with the ultimate story arc where it all makes sense and is the greatest story ever told. The above is all that will be seen. And Disney will not let that happen under any circumstances. Because in the end, they are afraid of their own shadow.

At best (for Kylo's arc), we will be given this "thought provoking" dynamic.
Kylo - born from two heroes turns evil.
Rey - born from nothing (or from evil) turns hero.

Or maybe
Rey - good chick questions Resistance motives and turns neutral
Kylo - bad dude questions FO motives and turns neutral
They join forces and we finally have "the real" happy ending, until episode 10 unravels it yet again.

There probably won't be any serious OMG moment in this trilogy. Nothing that leaves life long debates about attachment, redemption, family, ....

The big ST *twist* will probably be more like this

 

It's a space bandage thing. He seems to only have it in early scenes, which pretty much tells you how the threat of him blowing up Leia comes out. They're not going to kill her off at the start of the movie.

 

Nah, she was born after Ben to Han and Leia, but was thought to have died in a tragic accident that Han blamed himself (or possibly young Ben) for

 

So...

Spoiler

Snoke is NuCanon Abeloth, only no tentacles?

 

What if Snoke and the First Order are not actually the ultimate Big Bads of this trilogy?

 

I'm... raising serious eyebrows at the post claiming that Disney not wanting to roll back everything they've done in terms of more diverse protagonists to make an old white man the hero would be cowardly.

(I'm also probably even more puzzled to see it in Lit, given the near-universal consensus here that the latter-day EU throwing all next-gen characters under the bus in favor of Luke the Demigod was a really bad thing).

 

Waiting to unleash something truly powerful?
I can go with it.

 

Hmm. Perhaps Snoke is a harbinger of some kind of eldritch evil.

I also just started reading Vector Prime again last night... so i started to think "what if Snoke is like Nom Anor?" Plus his scarring and what not. Seems Vong-ish, minus the Goldmember robe.

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Basically.

 

I was a little surprised we didn’t see any scenes with Rose.

 

The best path is obviously one that nobody saw coming (although not so out of left field that it feels twist for the sake of it). It would be a bit "for the sake of it" if TLJ ends with a new baddie showing up at the end (maybe even post credits). It might be interesting if Kylo actually killed Snoke (like Vader the Emperor in RotJ), but it turns out to be more like Anakin Vader in RotS had OB1 not foiled those plans.

Perhaps Kylo purposely lost to Rey to get his day in court with Snoke. Showing loyalty by killing Han, but then making sure he doesn't come off as too big a threat. It would explain a) Rey's ridiculous "don't call it a comeback" moment and possibly b) Luke's fear of a previous raw power display c) finishing what Vader started in RotS.

The PT was about "what would you do to save the ones you loved?"
Perhaps the ST is about "who would you sacrifice to achieve your ultimate goal." Kylo didn't want to kill Han and doesn't seem to want to kill Leia, but it is the task he was given. And he must follow through to set up his ultimate coup.

Kylo definitely has the most interesting possibilities of the ST characters. Rey seems to be going the Luke ESB/RotJ dark side temptation path according to the trailer, but does anybody really think she'd go dark? That would make her "vulnerable" (and interesting) and we can't have that.

This whole thing kind of reminds me of a recent Episodes episode. Matt LeBlanc doesn't want to play the highly flawed father in a new TV show, but the writer rolls his eyes and says something like "but that's the better part." Heath Ledger's joker. Spacey's Keyser Soze. Hannibal Lecter. Darth Maul/Vader/Sidious. The idea that Rey going dark is a bad thing is what raises my eyebrow.

That is odd.

 

Not just the white guy, but the mass murderer who also killed Han Solo and brutalized Rey, Finn, and Poe.

 

The "but" is what makes his character interesting and why it has the best possible future character arc pay off. If we could take the gender and race out of the equation, that would be a given. That's the point.

We don't truly know Kylo's motivation in all of this other than "finish what you started". Perhaps he is Machiavellian. He, like his grandfather before him, sees a just end, but will use questionable means to achieve it. If the ST ends that way, it would set up a nice SST where the question is answered. Did his means justify the end or is he just another brutal dictator that doesn't understand he's the bad guy? If the outcome is his view of his grandfather's strong but just ruler, then he's a hero and villain simultaneously.

That's more interesting than somebody that starts off good, overcoming her upbringing, remains good and eventually does the big hero good. We already saw that in Luke. It is the ultimate OT rehash at that point.

 

Here's the thing though, Lucasfilm is not even taking gender out of it. They're leaning into that full-bore, to an almost shameless degree. THEY started this.

Also Kylo being more interesting than Rey is, very debatable. I certainly don't find him to be, nor do I find his arc to be more interesting than hers. Also he's not the most popular new character amongst the GA either, she is.

 

Yeah. That's the point. So the idea that realizing certain character arcs are inhibited not based on possible story/character lines but gender/race shouldn't raise anybody's eyebrow. Rey is going to be the hero in the end. If you could bet in Vegas, it would be a sure thing. In 1980, we felt worried about Luke at the end of ESB. That will not be the case with Rey.

Not judging by internet discussions. People have tons of questions on Kylo. The only question that ever seems to happen with Rey is "who are her parents", which is not a character trait. Popular ≠ interesting.

 

Also: Whoever has been in charge of composing/arranging music for the Lucasfilm Trailers (TFA, Rogue One, TLJ) is doing an INCREDIBLE job of weaving together new and old Star Wars themes in extremely effective and powerful ways. Amazing work.