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Lit Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread (Tags Required for rumors/spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    The idea that Disney hasn't thought about all of this exhaustively is laughable.
     
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  2. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    they haven't, that's why they're going to reboot the films instead of doing IX, since VIII is such a failure
     
  3. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    This isn't new to the franchise at all. ROTS was all about failure, except maybe for Palpatine. "I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you"--Obi-Wan. "Failed I have"--Yoda.
    The thing is these guys had a plan after their failure. A long game plan, but a plan nonetheless. So ROTS already told us how to deal with failure.

    Ep. 8 isn't doing anything new. It reopens the failure question and then has the lead failure, Luke, admit he has no plan and ran off to die. Then Rey sort of gets him back to the mindset of having a long game type view with a sacrifice (I will not be the last Jedi etc.) It's just that this time around they had Luke completely run off without any plan which was out of character from what we developed in the OT. (Luke planned to stall Palpatine until the Rebel attack on DS2, he planned to rescue his friends on Bespin, he had even a clumsy plan of rescuing Leia in ANH).
     
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  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Which is why Ep 9 has an awful lot to do.
     
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  5. What Are The Odds

    What Are The Odds Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jul 31, 2016
    Or what's left of it. 2/3 probably
     
  6. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

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    Aug 19, 2002
    Well clearly they'll have to relocate.
     
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  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Hmm, well the FO can just settle on Coruscant. I mean if the Resistance are going to be called Rebels now, might as well take this full circle...

    Kylo strikes me as the metropolitan big-city type of guy anyway--always wants to be where the action is. No wonder he didn't take to Luke's rural looking temple.
     
  8. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Honestly I think the thinking stopped at oh it’s got a Starwars Label it’s gonna sell regardless, now lets make a Star-wars Ride.
     
  9. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    We now know for a fact that Disney did in fact NOT think of a reason for Luke's hiding on Ahch-to for 7. Rian was left on his own for this, and said so in an interview.

    So it's not laughable at all that Disney hasn't thought out a lot of stuff, much less exhaustively. It is in fact the most likely truth that Disney has not thought a lot out going by what is gleaned from interviews etc.
     
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  10. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    If they're not making this up as they're going along they're doing a great job of making it feel that way.
     
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  11. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    Pretty sure I read that JJ was making his pitch for IX last week.
     
  12. The Raddinator

    The Raddinator Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Well, I think one problem there is that it wasn't really. The characters told us that they were failing, but they weren't . Obi-Wan blamed himself for failing Anakin, but what we saw was Obi-Wan being a great guy and Anakin being a jerk who fell to the Dark Side in spite of Obi-Wan being a good teacher, not because Obi-Wan failed. Yoda said he had failed to defeat Palpatine but actually he just arbitrarily ran away half way through an inconclusive fight for absolutely no reason, even though he still stood every chance of success.

    ROTS may have *wanted* to be about failure, but that wasn't actually the story which it told, unlike TLJ.
     
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  13. BobaMatt

    BobaMatt TFN EU Staff star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2002
    That's not the same thing as not putting a ton of thought into the movie they're making.
     
  14. mnjedi

    mnjedi Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    The way TLJ went through all of TFAs deliberately hanging plot threads and was like " I opened all ur mystery boxes dude and they were all empty lol" was eerily reminiscent of LOTF TBH.
     
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  15. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2016
    I consider this film as an alternative version of the events that happened after Return of the Jedi but with a bad ending for the original heroes

    I do not count this movie as something 100% canon
    I like to see the new trilogy as an alternative story

    Anyway the new trilogy is not 100% canon since George Lucas was not directly involved in it
    But this is only my opinion of course
     
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  16. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    If you want to see Obi-Wan being a jerk, that was in TCW. They can't fit that all into movies--what was done with Ahsoka with Obi-Wan's consent, writing off R2 after he was captured, and Obi-Wan faking his death and fooling Anakin about it. The material was there in TCW and Anakin became more of a jerk as a result of that.

    The way it's filmed doesn't make it clear, but Yoda had very little chance of success. Mas Amedda marching off at the beginning of the duel? He was running off to get legions of stormtrooper reinforcements. Yoda had only minutes to defeat Palpatine. He ran because he knew very soon the Senate chamber would be swarming with stormtroopers aiming for him.
     
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  17. The Raddinator

    The Raddinator Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2017
    I take your point on both, but I think we're in agreement that the film doesn't do this very well. If Obi-Wan's failure is predominantly explained through a separate, and later cartoon series, and Yoda's relies on something that is only barely hinted at in the way that the story is told onscreen, then is it really a movie about those failures? I would argue no; it WANTED to be about failure, but ironically enough, it didn't succeed.
    I do think that's a useful way in which TLJ is different, and superior; it foregrounds failure and makes it central to both the characters and the story rather than talking about it but not actually demonstrating it clearly within the narrative.
     
  18. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Ok, so you want ROTS' failures to be screen in the films. They are, but it's not as ham-fisted and out of character as
    Luke drawing a lightsaber on Kylo

    This is why TLJ's take on failure is inferior in my opinion-it's so out of character. The only good quote in TLJ which I find useful in real life is
    Rey saying that Luke assumed Kylo's decision was made when it wasn't. I see this happening in the real world all the time.

    The ROTS failures are more subtle like real life. I will requote an earlier post I made on this thread here:

    Anakin is far more sympathetic than Kylo. Anakin's little talk to Yoda in ROTS about trying to save Padme without mentioning her name in fear of getting reprimanded resounded greatly with me and reminds me of times I tried to talk to my parents and had to mince words because they'd just start screaming and yelling (i.e. parents only care about you getting a good job, but once you've got that they can't be bothered helping you find friends or a girlfriend--ironically the social skills that don't get trained precisely because you spent so many years focusing on higher education and career success. And once you bring that up with them and ask for help in getting out of the "go to work, come home, repeat" rat race, they just start yelling it's not my concern etc.)

    Yoda only cared that Anakin was good at his job (being a Jedi). He had no concern for his social, emotional wellbeing to the point that Anakin can't even talk about his relationship with Padme without getting chewed out and fired from his job ("You will be expelled from the Jedi Order!"--AOTC). When the parent figures pay no attention to the youth's emotional wellbeing alongside their career wellbeing, this just massively increases the chances the youth will do something outrageous out of desperation (join a bad crowd, get involved with a bad girl/boyfriend, go overseas to a dangerous country just to meet someone etc). In Anakin's case, he got involved with a bad crowd because said bad crowd, the Sith, was the only one who would "listen" to Anakin's emotional issues.

    I thought ROTS had a good representation on something we see a lot in the real world (or at least for me, the Asian culture I was brought up in--and I know all Asian cultures aren't like this, just the worst "Tiger Mom" elements of it)--so much focus on career (Jedi in Anakin's case) success with no regard to the emotional, social, or healthy romantic life of a young person.

    So yeah, I do feel that TLJ is far inferior in how it handles failure.
     
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  19. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    I have to say, things i focused in on during Canto Bight: everything about it screams Prequel Trilogy. All the PT haters *have* to hate Canto Bight because of it. Cloud City planted the seeds for a more posh side of the galaxy, but the PT really hones in on that. Canto Cops in particular are wearing a version of the uniforms we see Naboo military and palace guards wearing. Right down to the helmet design and the smooth, chrome weapons. It's actually really nice.

    For those that would say it's not Star Wars, it clearly is. But the Star Wars "no one liked." It's like expecting Monte Carlo to be just like Kandahar or Mosul. Some parts of our own planet feel like alien worlds against other parts. Of course Canto Bight isnt going to feel like Mos Eisley. The people on Canto Bight probably have penthouses in the highest towers of Coruscant.

    The classical string quartet remark i made about the Canto music earlier was way off as off could be, because it's the Cantina song on Carribean steel drums. So i dont know why i thought of it like a string quartet.

    Holdo. I like her, even if not directly telling Poe the plan is nonsense and could have avoided the whole mutiny situation. That said, something about Laura Dern's delivery just feels out of place in a Star Wars movie. It still bothers me after 3 viewings.

    I cant emphasize enough how much i dislike the design of First Order blasters. Why the hell did they decide to make them look like Nerf guns? To sell Nerf guns that are basicslly 100% movie accurate? Oh. Well, that's dumb. Even though it's grown on me, the softer smoother stormtrooper design is probably *the* most Disney-fied thing about these movies. Makes no sense that they didnt decide on a mlre terrifying look for the allegedly scarier more unhinged First Order's shock troops.

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  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I never made the connection between Canto Bight police and Naboo security... the only connection I thought of was CSA police. Aren't they pretty damn similar? Maybe it's a fusion of the two. Edit: I looked up Espos on Wookieepedia and they don't really look similar at all. Whoops!

    I liked Canto Bight even if that subplot was the weakest of the film.
     
  21. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Also, Luke's younger hair color bothers me. It's *really* dark. Mark's natural hair color is not that dark. So why didnt they try to mute his grey more, and bring out the sandy hair color. Instead, it's real dark brown or black.

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  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    I didn't like how he looked in the flashbacks. His robes seemed strange, the cloak didn't really seem to go with them and contrasted heavily.
     
  23. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    Kewl
     
  24. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Yeah. I dont know why they didnt just reuse the Forceback robes from TFA. [​IMG]

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  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Canto Bight Security IS confirmed to be Corporate Sector, I believe.


    The Force, and I think Anakin Skywalker in particular, guided Rey to that lightsaber. She might not be a Skywalker by blood, but she is a Skywalker by heart. Perhaps she'll even rename the New Jedi " the Skywalkers."

    Luke never left a map. People thought he went to the First Jedi Temple. The map is a map to the First Jedi Temple.

    And the Knights of Ren are likely the Jedi students who sided with Kylo Ren, that Luke talks about.