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Lit Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread (Tags Required for rumors/spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Yes.

    The Separatists were the pawns of the Dark Lord of the Sith. With or without the Jedi, they would have attacked the Republic.
     
  2. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    The Jedi were also the pawns of the Dark Lord of the Sith. Evidenced by the fact that we don't know whether or not the Separatists would attack the Republic since the Republic attacked first. As evidenced by the fact that it's in the name of the movie.

    "Never for attack."

    Never.
     
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  3. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 16, 2012
    We don't? I thought it was obvious by the movie that the Separatists was just a short time away from launching an attack
     
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  4. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    "Our friends from the Trade Federation have pledged their support and when their battle droids are combined with yours we shall have an army greater than any in the galaxy. The Jedi will be overwhelmed. The Republic will agree to any demands we make."

    As far as we know, all the Separatists want is to "break away." The Republic have used the Jedi to ensure they can't (presumably, such as in the "border dispute on Ansion"), so the Separatists gather an army that the Jedi won't be able to deal with. Their goals as presented in the film do not indicate an attack, but a defense against what they perceive as Jedi/Republic aggression.
     
  5. Vialco

    Vialco Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 6, 2007
    Old Luke certainly took that lesson to heart. Thankfully it died with him. Rey can rebuild the Jedi without adhering to that particular bit of dogma. The Old Jedi got it right. Mace came within a hair of killing Palpatine after all.
     
  6. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 3, 2005
    I will never cease to be amazed by how much people can love Star Wars and interpret it in the most bizarre ways.

    I feel like we've been over this before, but the old Jedi were nothing but stupid policemen doing the bidding of the state. That's exactly how Lucas introduces them - not as spiritual leaders but as U.S. Marshals who people are deeply terrified of. Besides that they turn people into sexless, distant freaks who deeply lack empathy or a holistic world view, and cling to vague prophecies as some sort of mission statement. And Obi-Wan embodies this fully - he solves a bar fight with a lightsaber for heaven's sake.

    Yoda learns from ROTS and realises that combat and attacking your enemies isn't going to solve anything it's just going to perpetuate the same fight ad infinitum.

    As for the Geonosis example, it doesn't matter if the Confederacy was going to attack, the point is that the Jedi barge in wholesale blindly. They briefly question the clone army and then subscribe to it lock, stock and barrel, and let themselves be pressed into service. Their whole approach to the war mirrors what Obi-Wan and Yoda think the solution is in the OT: "If we kill this guy, then the war is over", so their whole approach is framed around assassination to solve problems. They're basically a bunch of General Dravens in bathrobes.
     
  7. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    the How it Should Have Ended was pretty funny, there's a super-inside reference there when Rey chops of Kylo's hand and he goes "Owwww, why'd you slice off my hand?" which is a line that Luke has from the Star Wars Gangsta Rap



    Also the "What is it with you and lightning all of a sudden?!" was funny as well, and the admission that if Snoke said he was Darth Plageuis it would be a somewhat random digression but cool.

    Their imagined ending is fun but even though the series is called "How It Should Have Ended" they're never quite to be taken literally. Luke and Rey taking on the whole First Order would be cool but I get more dramatic pathos out of Luke's Force Projection solution. Also I'm always astounded how they get the background details pretty perfectly, frame composition and everything in HISHE, without the home copies ready yet. (They probably source it from cam bootlegs, don't they?)

    Got in my 7th viewing a few days ago, probably the last theatrical viewing cuz the buzz is Last Jedi will hit blu ray late March (And digital a few weeks earlier), and as of now, Last Jedi isn't playing anywhere in my town anymore. :( So hopefully the late March blu ray street date is legit, even if it is about a week or two earlier than when R1 and TFA hit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  8. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    I was talking with a friend of mine about Star Wars books and comics the other day, and during the talk I went over Dark Empire and its connections to the prequels and sequels. But afterwards, that made me think... so the DE/TLJ parallels have been well gone over in this thread and elsewhere. But there's another Dark Horse parallel I don't think I've ever seen come up in conversation yet:

    Old Jedi Master with a past brush with the dark side, but now having his connection to the Force severed, goes to live in some ruins on an ancient distant planet
    Teenaged girl goes to him for Jedi training, which he reluctantly agrees to
    The old Jedi has a reconciliation with a woman from his past who he hasn't seen for years and who is the mother figure of his Jedi trainee
    The Old Jedi refuses to engage in combat when the situation arises, and fades into the Force on his death

    Am I talking about Luke and Rey, or Ulic Qel-Droma and Vima Sunrider?
     
  9. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2012
    Good catch, the parallels are definitely there! It's been ages since I've read TOTJ.
     
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  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Really interesting, especially since many Legends fans consider Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy to be their Legends 7-9; people don't as often claim Kevin J. Anderson's work constitutes their sequel trilogy... (although TOTJ: Redemption is technically a prequel :p )
     
  11. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Redemption is one of my favourite stories, so happy for there to be parallels in TLJ.
     
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  12. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    Which is weird. KJA gave the people what they wanted. Luke with a class of new Jedi. Luke did a lot of things in Zahn's books, but not much of it was starting the Jedi up or teaching or really caring about any Force sensitive that wasn't Mara or his family.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    Not to mention, KJA was the one who established that Luke starts his new order with 12 new trainees, another detail that gets carried on in TLJ.

    I'm still really hoping that eventually it's established that Luke's ST Jedi Temple is on Endor to further the mirroring of his EU Temple.
     
  14. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    I haven't seen this suggested before, but I am all for it.
     
  15. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Mar 3, 2005
    I'm praying that Wicket's cowl is shown as one of Kylo Ren's trophies in IX
     
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  16. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Pfft. Like Ben could take Darth Jub Jub.
     
  17. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jan 5, 2017
    Pfft. Like Ben could take Darth Jub Jub.
     
  18. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    There is a very, dark, very messy, very bloody story involving how Darth Vader's helmet left the funeral pyre at Endor.

    Unless Luke took it when it was over. "Hmmm, this thing didn't entirely burn right. Oh well, I'll just keep it!" Might have made awkward conversation at the Ewok Party. Later on, he hung it on the wall at his Jedi Academy. Didn't make the right impression on Ben.

    Oh, speaking of Ben, is that his own blue lightsaber that he uses against Luke or was he using Luke/Anakin's old lightsaber. Cuz it looks a lot like Skywalker's Saber to me.
     
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  19. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    The Perfect Weapon short story seems to imply that a stormtrooper took it from Endor and Kylo Ren hired Bazine to track it down from the old trooper.
     
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  20. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Ohhh, is THAT what the case was? I literally just finished reading it a few days ago. I just thought it was some random McGuffin case.
     
  21. Danz Borin420

    Danz Borin420 Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Oct 26, 2017
  22. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    Eesh, I wouldn't say that breakdown's especially philosophical. He's wilfully ignoring the positive aspects of the film (and of nihilism itself). It's just another bitter "my childhood is ruined!" rant dressed up in scholarly robes.
     
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  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I agreed with some of what he said, but much of it was the same old whiny crap that people of my generation or older regularly put forth about “millennials”.

    I did laugh at the part about Hux being a Geico commercial (the breeding penguins one is better) and about Johnson saying he would like more diversity in directing because “even he knows he’s obsolete.”

    I thought he was a little too positive about Rey; she is not badass in TLJ, she turns into mush over Kylo’s sad eyes and pecs. That’s not badass, that’s stupid. As far as her parents being random addicts who sold her—I’m surprised that anyone thought that Force ability was specifically inherited or designated. There is nothing in the OT or the PT that indicated to me that it isn’t randomly allotted. That’s why the PT Jedi Order sought out Force sensitive kids.

    I also thought he didn’t give Finn enough credit; with a director who will allow it, Finn could be pretty important to the Resistance.

    And I thought he was too rough on Luke. Luke didn’t want to take up the lightsaber again—and? He’s spent several years on that island with nothing but Porgs, philosophizing about the Force and the place of the Jedi in the universe, and I thought he came to pretty good conclusions about how the Light Side is not limited specifically to an organized Jedi Order.

    Luke going Minority Report on Kylo was stupid, and out of character, and inserted by RJ for the sole purpose of trying to invoke sympathy for Kylo, but the rest of RJ’s characterization of Luke was pretty good.

    And I like the idea of Rey taking the texts and studying them on her own. Someone posted in New Films about this generation being more likely to use online learning and how Rey taking the texts is a good parallel. As someone who did her masters degree mostly online and has done several other online courses, I can see it.
     
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  24. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Knight star 3

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    Dec 20, 2016
    She really doesn't. I don't know if it's because people haven't had a chance to re-watch the scene without a home video release, but I've seen the impression that Rey was drooling over Kylo's topless appearance from quite a few people, and it just isn't in the film. She demands he covers up, then doesn't look at his body again throughout the entire scene. She's discombobulated because he's invading her personal space again, and she's trying to ask him why he murdered his father -- a heavy subject that she's emotional about and clearly working herself up to asking him about, and while Kylo's attempt at distracting her is annoying and throws her initially, she doesn't get distracted by it.

    It's Kylo's "let the past die" that hits home for her; it's a rewording of Maz's "the belonging you seek is not behind you; it is ahead", which is Rey's whole thing; she wants to belong somewhere, and both Maz and Kylo have hinted at how she can find that belonging.
     
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I’ve only seen the movie once so I’m not disputing your explanation of the visuals; I was thinking of how she immediately ran to Luke, attacked him, and accused him of “creating Kylo Ren.”
     
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