A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

I was thinking, and let's say Holdo gives Poe a " We have a plan, but we aren't giving you the details because the last time we let you in on our plan you got the entire resistance bomber wing killed and allmost lost the Raddus." and then Poe goes off and mutinies anyways. Boy oh boy does it make Poe look horrible.

Nobody comes out of that mess smelling like roses in the movie, but if Holdo manages the situation properly and Poe pulls his stunt anyways then they just made thier hero the least likable dude in a movie with Kylo and Hux in it.

 

Instead the movie just elides how many people Poe killed by holding a mutiny.

 

HOW ARE YOU ONY JUST TELLING ME ABOUT THIS, NANCY?!?!

--Adm. Nick

 

Like they go out fighting Vader and the stormtroopers?

 

I want Vader to put his lightsaber through Raddus' chest, only to have Raddus pull it deeper so he can grab Vader and show him the defiance in his eyes as he dies.

Raddus is a mother****ing boss.

--Adm. Nick

 

I THOUGHT JAY TOLD YOU! I didn't know you very well then!

 

Mmm... the only time I'm an Imperial...



--Adm. Nick

 

Where are all the heroic men?

All the other star wars movies? 90 percent of media in general?

 

Or two out of three leads in this movie, for that matter.

 

Exactly.

In Legends, Jaina should have been a focal point lead antagonist... especially in LOTF... she should have been Legends' Rey. But she was constantly sidelined in favor of Ben Skywalker and saddled with lame love triangle crap with Zekk and Jag. Now we get an ST and there are guys out there tripping that the films have a female lead that is the story's main character.

We can talk about strong female leads in the previous trilogies, but neither Padme nor Leia were the central characters are which the story turned. That was Anakin and Luke. Now that we have Rey, some guys cant handle it at all.

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Mind you, Han, Luke, and Leia were all co-stars. There was no single star.

 

And yet Carrie Fisher spends scene after scene standing there while tertiary characters give orders.

And yet Harrison Ford wanted them to kill Han off because his narrative relevance ran out in the very first movie.

Narratively there is very much one single star that trilogy.

 

What movie did you watch?

Leia takes over from Han because Han is an idiot.

LEIA
Listen. I don't know who you are, or
where you came from, but from now
on, you do as I tell you. Okay?

Han is stunned at the command of the petite young girl.

HAN
Look, Your Worshipfulness, let's get
one thing straight! I take orders
from one person! Me!

LEIA
It's a wonder you're still alive.
(looking at Chewie)
Will somebody get this big walking
carpet out of my way?

 

I watched the movie where Princess Leia was great in the first two acts, then has no lines in the third act from the time the X-wings launch until the time they land.

I watched the sequel to that movie where Princess Leia makes no active decisions in the narrative, whether on Echo Base (where even when she speaks the words, she gives credit to Rieekan), on the Falcon (where Han is making all the decisions), or on Bespin (where Han's rescue is spurred by Lando).

She fares better for a bit in the third movie, then (as Carrie herself pointed out) she gets stripped out of her clothes and becomes a silent set decoration. She murders Jabba, which I LOVE, but then Han gets to command the Endor mission out of nowhere, Luke gets to fight Vader, and Leia... Is left alone to grapple with the fact that she made out with her own brother. And she gets shot later. Her bits with Wicket are cute though.

 

I think the answer to the male vs. female leads/characters may be in the concept of "target audience". If memory serves (I could research it for quotes and such, but I'll let others tackle that), GL said that his target audience for the OT, or just SW in general, was boys (i.e. males) around age 13 (i.e. prepubescent). Having been a 13 year old boy (well, 7 when ANH came out), I can say that I wasn't too much into movies with female leads. Now, granted, by the time I was 13-14 and RotJ was out I did...um...appreciate...the female form a bit more. Still, it was Luke who I wanted to emulate. And, since GL was still in charge for the PT, I don't think he changed his target audience much...a little, yes, but not too much. Flash forward a decade or so, with Kathleen Kennedy in charge (with Disney's backing), I believe that they've essentially changed their target audience more towards girls ages 12-14 or so. And, since all of the books, comics, etc. are now supposed to be canon, they are just following suit for the same target audience...maybe a little difference in target age.

So, the problem with that could be that the older "guys", who "were" the original target audience are finding it hard to accept that they are no longer the target audience, so what they would want in SW is really no longer important to the content/story creators. Full disclosure...I'm one of those men. I didn't really like TFA or TLJ, nor a majority of the story content that has come out under Disney and KK's leadership. In a way, for me personally, it's a good thing. It's allowing me to let go of SW after 40 years of fandom and to get into other things.

 

I think Poe is still heroic in the movie, he's just being dopey. Like the General said "Get your head out of your cockpit!" One can still be heroic but dopey, which is what Poe does for pretty much the film until Leia knocks him out with a stun blast. Takes him the whole movie until at the end, and Holdo's sacrifice, until he learns what he's supposed to, restraint by not rushing out with Luke.

 

It's one thing to say "okay. I'm bot really the target demographic for this anymore" and move along. It's another entirely to cry about "SJWs" and "feminists" and lament the "lack" of male heroes in a franchise flush with them because of 3 movies with female leads. 4 seasons of a Star Wars cartoon with 2 male leads as the central locii just wrapped up for Force's sake.

I'm 38 years old, i'm not the demographic for any of this anymore, really. My 3-12 year old kids, however, are. All boys. None of them upset that the Big Damn Hero of the ST is a woman.

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I think the impulse to only care about female leads when they're wearing metal bikinis is exactly why this franchise needs female leads who would drive a lightsaber through the first person to suggest they wear a metal bikini.

 

I legitimately laugh when the Nexxu in Attack of the Clones slashes Padme so she can have a sexy belly shirt. I THINK it's supposed to be a joke, I treat it that way anyway.

 

Well, it's at least a callback to that sort of exploitation in old pulp films, same as Slave Leia calls back to John Carter of Mars, but AOTC plays it too straight. Padmé's wound doesn't bother her at all, even when she rolls around in sand, so it's ignoring any character completely just to make her look a bit sexier. Considering how her character devolves across the trilogy from strong warrior-leader to mopey walking womb it's not the best decision Lucas could have made.

 

I will never forget the infamous Star Wars Unleashed sexy Padme statue...

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Doesn't the Nexxu break her skin as well that she's bleeding across her back? Or did it just rip the shirt? Anyway, I totally get that both Slave Leia and Bellyshirt Padme are B-pulp movie throwbacks so they fit. I don't know if they would do that in the ST, though. Unless they flip it and have Poe have his shirt burnt off by a flamethrower or something. Maybe Suddenly Shirtless Kylo counts?

 

Yeah, she was definitely bleeding, IIRC.

I think Shirtless Kylo is the most skin we'll see (from the MCs) in the ST.

 

Maz could have a completely different job in Episode IX after her castle got blown up and her Union dispute that lets her show some skin!

Anyway, I really hope the union dispute she mentioned was the Techno Union or Trade Federation or something, even though it's a throwaway line (pretty funny, though).