A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

*so far. Surely it's not going to stay that way. It would be crazy for him not for Disney/Del Rey to milk that time period of Luke Skywalker's life with books, or even tv/films. And who knows what he could have gotten up to.

Anything can make sense if you do enough mental gymnastics to justify it. They could portray Luke as a 300lb Hutt-like entity with 3 heads who gets off on farting on porgs and you could come up with a way for the characterisation to make sense.

 

You could; however it wouldn't be a logical extension of all elements of the seven preceding features as TLJ is.

 

I like this point (and the post, as a whole) because it's one of the few things I'm willing to defend in my gaggle.

"TLJ Luke is out of character! Luke would never do that!" etc

Nah. The way he reacts to events seems appropriate from where I'm sitting. It's a entirely justifiable and realistic take on Luke.

Is it a satisfying take on Luke? The one most appropriate for the sequel trilogy? Was Rian was right that there could be no possible (or, at least, no better) explanation for Luke's disappearance? Was Luke passing on before he could truly became "the first of the new" a good call? That's still a firm no, from me.

So I remain fairly bothered by the portrayal from an OOU perspective, even if I'm fine with it from an IU one.

I think INJUSTICE having Superman turn killer authoritarian after the Joker murders his pregnant wife makes a fair bit of sense, too... but it would never be a good addition to the core mythos.

(That is not to say that I think TLJ!Luke is a 1:1 analog for IJ!Superman. I am not entirely delusional.)

 

Yeah just because it could make sense for Luke to do those things doesn't mean that it was the right or best way to portray him.

 

*an entirely justifiable

Urgh.

I really used to take that unlimited edit time for granted.

 

A major part of why TLJ has been so divisive is that Johnson's goal wasnt really "what is the most satisfying thing to do here"(especially with Luke). That's pretty paint by numbers at this point. I think his goal was to shock and tell us a Star Wars story that is both familiar and, in many ways, quite different.

ESB doesnt really follow the "most satisfying" direction if you look at it from the perspective of walking in on just ANH. You are definitely not expecting Vader to be Luke's father by any means. And that was controversial with part of fan base at the time, they just didnt have the platform to broadcast their displeasure to the world over and over for months after release.

Sadly, we'll never see a more successful Luke Skywalker on screen but, at least, we have an entire other timeline in which he is and have more fodder for visualizing what that looks like. I'm not particularly keen on Rey after TLJ being in essentially the same position Luke was in after ROTJ with far less training, but it is what it is. Cant fathom why the Story Group was handed that aspect of the story Johnson gave them and thought that made any sense at all.... but it's a bit late to change it unless JJ wants to resurrect George's discarded idea that Force spirits can reconstitute themselves in the physical realm. Which i would, frankly, support whole heartedly for Luke.

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Well considering some of the things Yoda did as a force ghost in TLJ it's already looking as though they can affect the material universe a lot more than we thought they could previously. I mean everything Luke did in TLJ as a material being could have been done by a force ghost anyway when you think about it so it's not like he's any worse off being "dead" in that regard.

 

I like the idea that spirits can only appear to, and influence the world around, those with whom they have a personal connection.

So my ideal world (given the ST we have, anyway) is one where Luke's example at the end of TLJ gave him that personal connection with everyone he inspired, allowing him to become "The Skywalker" in truth and guide all those with the right ability and temperament -- no matter where they are in the galaxy -- to the ways of the Jedi.

"But, Uli, Obi-Wan spoke to Rey and they didn't have a personal connection."

Yeah you're right.

****.

But, uh, Obi-Wan... he... urm. Oh! He had a connection to the lightsaber, having been custodian of it for two decades.

Yeah.

Yeah, that'll do.

*phew*

"But, Yoda also..."

GODDAMMIT.

 

It just occurred to me how they could have made it that Luke was dead the entire time. Sixth Sense style. How ****ing crazy would that have been. Probably even more controversial though.

 

I honestly feared that at the end of TFA Rey would get to Ahch-To and find Force ghost Luke.

 

It occurred to me that this film established that Force projections are visible to droids/technology (Threepio saw projected Luke). Why did Luke not ever pick up a holocam and start recording the moment he saw a ghost? And upload those to the holonet. It would have caused a massive morale boost for the Jedi/Rebels/Republic...

Luke: The Jedi way--where death is not the end! Meanwhile Palpatine is still dead.

 

I presume there is a different between a Force projection that Luke did and a Force ghost after death.

 

Luke's projection isn't just visible - it's got (at least a selective) physicality. Leia touches him. Kylo finds the dice. When Kylo is forcechatting with Rey, he gets rain on his face/

 

I thought that droplet was just emo Kylo shedding a random tear.

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This. Luke is, for a time, physically in 2 places at once.

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It's not much of a feat when his physical form on Ach-To is in a comatose meditative state and can't do anything. It's not like he's walking around on two different planets at the same time, doing totally different things at the same time. He's basically astral projecting himself across time and space. His physical self on Ach-To is completely helpless while he's doing it.

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I'd like to see you try it.

 

Such parlor tricks are beneath a Dark Jedi Master such as myself.

 

This sounds like something Jorus C'Baoth would say. Man, if this attitude is reflective of Force users towards non-Force users every time the non-Force user offered up criticism, no wonder the galaxy was eager to get rid of the Jedi circa ROTS.

Luke was wrong to isolate his Jedi instead of integrating them with non-Force users in the galaxy, I think. Rey had better make her Jedi have less hubris (something Luke himself pointed out in 8) and let them know that just because they have a higher midichlorian count doesn't make them "better" than other people.

Because if she doesn't, her Jedi will get wiped out again, and quite frankly the galaxy just won't care. I wouldn't be surprised if Episode X is 'Days of Jedi Past' with Sentinel droids rounding up Force users and locking them up because the galaxy is sick of them.

 

Okay this response got me, kudos.

I like all this stuff because it provides a better excuse to argue that the material world is ultimately an emanation of the Force.

Forget Abeloth, where's Yaldabaoth at?

 

TBH I was going to say something very similar but I refrained, but I'm glad someone says it because when we live in a world where someone physically being two places at once isn't considered exceptional, I just don't know what to think anymore.

 

Did he isolate them? They were all still in training. I don't know that we have any reason to believe he wouldn't have sent them all out into the galaxy except that all died.

 

Hmm good point. I guess I'm subconsciously comparing to the 'Jedi Academy' PC game, where the students go on missions and Luke talks about 'Learning by doing'.

 

In retrospect, "Learning by doing" basically explains why the Jedi generation Luke taught were ill prepared for everything, every time.

 

I don't consider it overly exceptional because it was a one-and-done trick. It killed Luke to do it. Literally.

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