Lit Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread (Tags Required for rumors/spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Karl0413, Feb 5, 2016.

  1. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Honestly, I think there's a lot of really good and believable ways they could present Snoke which wouldn't require him being some sort of ancient evil or Palpatine wannabe. Certainly, I think the idea of the heroes Go-karting with Bowser (see TV tropes) years before the First Order was a thing is an intriguing idea. It makes the betrayal of not only Han and Leia's son more believable but also their own emotional devastation. Han, Leia, and Luke have very few weaknesses but their ability to believe in the others is a strength which I could see them getting burned by as a whole.

    Basically, we let that monster in our home and never saw what he was doing because we believe in redemption and that people can change.

    One thing Snoke is different about Palpatine by is the fact he treats Kylo Ren (and Hux to an extent) as a surrogate son. Even when he's asking something insane like, "kill your father", he phrases it in a manner which is a challenge to Kylo and sympathetic. He doesn't shed his mask despite having risen to the status of Supreme Leader, unlike, again, Sheev.

    He acts more like evil Yoda than the Emperor in a lot of ways.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Jun 16, 2017
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  2. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    I think Snoke's in a no-win situation. If he's unrelated to the prior trilogies, then it's even more off-putting to have a Palptine impersonator appear out of nowhere. It's hard to have a satisfying neo-Imperial pseudo-Sith big bad appear out of nowhere, narratively, and have that satisfy. But on the other hand, tying him in to the saga threatens its own set of problems. Especially if he's Plagueis, which really undercuts the whole original saga if Palpatine's master was lurking out there the whole time. There's just not really a good answer. They kind of wrote themselves into a corner to begin with by insisting on making the bad guys the neo-Empire led by a pseudo-Emperor and Inverse Darth Vader. It's almost impossible to do anything that feels both original and respectful of the saga within those constraints.
  3. Havoc123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2013
    star 4
    I think it's based on...

    Show Spoiler
    Whoever has the best Linkin Park playlist.
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  4. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I'm actually okay with how it will probably be decided.

    After EPISODE 9 when snoke is is dead, they'll have James Luceno write a novel detailing his origins.

    :)
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  5. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 6
    Show Spoiler
    It is by the macho criteria of having the best hair
    Last edited by Gamiel, Jun 16, 2017
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  6. Jester J Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2016
    star 4
    Well, going by one of the concept images that didn't make it in Ep.7
    [IMG]

    Snoke lured Ben away with this wizard van. It is the same van used to round up the future FO stormtroopers.
  7. Vthuil Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2013
    star 5
    I dunno, I can definitely think of origins for Snoke that would work as far as I'm concerned.

    (Though again, I kind of wish they'd drawn a distinction between the original six-movie saga and the new one).
  8. Havoc123 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2013
    star 4
    I'm with @Charlemagne19. I honestly doubt Snoke has some epic secret identity, I think he's just a brand new character and the name will stay. Perhaps he was Vergere/Krayt-like and was originally a Jedi that observed things throughout the years. Maybe he even initially appeared to be a nice guy and help rehabilitate the old Empire's image, Leia and Han seem to be aware of his existence. But with all of that, I think he's just going to be 'Snoke' and we'll eventually get an origin story in a book. He will definitely not be Plagueis, nor Vitiate, nor Darth Bane himself.
  9. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I also point out he's a movie character who is a major part of a new trilogy. It's not him being anyone old is going to add anything except maybe Plagueis and even then, he's done more than Palpatine's master ever did. He's already a Tier 1 character.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Jun 17, 2017
  10. fett 4 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    I'd still wish they hadn't called Kylo, Ben. Neither Han or Leia had any proper connection to Obi-wan. At least with Legends EU Ben it made sense, with Luke.
    Last edited by fett 4, Jun 17, 2017
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  11. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I assume it went like, "We're naming him Luke"

    And Luke went, "Name him Ben."
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  12. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
  13. fett 4 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    That's a hell of a lot of assuming but I'd imagine Han saying " you want me to name my son after a crazy old man I knew for a day at the most ?, sure why not"

    I could have gone with that, hell the explanation of Leia using the name of Anakin as a way to reach out to the father she never knew also worked for me but Ben ... not so much
  14. Jester J Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2016
    star 4
    Why not name him after his #1 buddy

    C3-Solo
  15. fett 4 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Chewie (gum) Solo … hmm
  16. Jester J Binks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2016
    star 4
  17. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Ben Solo still makes no sense to me.
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  18. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 6
    Maybe it is after Han's father Ben Solo?
  19. Vialco Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    So Snoke is a sane version of Joruus C'baoth.
  20. Ulicus Lapsed Moderator

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Agreed.

    I don't think it'd be especially problematic. I'd even go so far as to say that it's the best case scenario. If they play it as, "Oh, Plagueis was such a master manipulator that Palpatine didn't realise his strings were being pulled the whole time, Snoke is the greatest, natch" then, yeah, it'll be embarrassingly awful. If, on the other hand, they play it as "Palpatine kicked the ever-living Sith (ba dum tsch) out of Plagueis and even once he'd regenerated from death he didn't dare show his face again until Palpatine was out of the picture because that's how terrified he was of his onetime apprentice" then I'll be totally cool with it.
  21. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 6
    Lando wanted to call him Sabacc Calrissian Solo. Han wanted to call him Ace. These names were settled on after casually considering names like Pirate, Scoundrel and Falcon.

    They both had their say in the baby's name removed after Leia called for a vote of no confidence in their baby naming abilities.
  22. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 6
    I think it would've been an awesome twist to have Kylo's name be "Luke." Instead of Snoke saying "...your father, Han Solo," he could've said, "...someone you once cared for...Han Solo." And Han's story about the destruction of Luke's academy could've been more vague, as well as his conversations with Leia. So when he steps out onto the bridge and says, "Luke!" everyone would've been floored. Then "Luke" says, "What do you think you'll see if I do?" Han says, "The face of my son," and everyone's floored again.
  23. LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2012
    star 4
    That... that's excellent!
    Now I feel frustrated they didn't do it like that.
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  24. Revanfan1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 6

    I don't think I was the originator of the idea, but after I heard it I thought it was just too good.
  25. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 7
    Idk, it would be weird to name their son after someone still alive.

    And with Ben, it was Obi-wan who was ultimately responsible for Han and Leia meeting, even if neither had the time to develop a personal connection with him. Leia was captured trying to reach Obi-wan. Obi-wan recruited Han, to go to Alderaan, and gave his life so Luke, Han, and Leia could escape. And they could see it as a way to honor Luke, who they might think will never have a child of his own.