A/V Episode VIII - THE LAST JEDI - Official Movie Discussion Thread

Centerpoint?

Me too.
I find it sad that post-NJO content is considered to be almost ideal.

I'm hoping that this means there will be some continuity in the ST. I've been apathetic towards the entire ST from the start though so I'm prepared for disappointment and hope to be awed. TFA pleasantly surprised me overall.

 

Just my experience. Hopefully TLJ and E9 help me look back fondly on TFA. If not, the books coming out after might help put things in a better light.
The books and comics might help make the 30 year gap make sense but enjoy it? Who knows. And there always is E10-12.

 

I'm actually not surprised about that. I wouldn't be surprised if that is 100% Abrams call. Let's face it. Abrams is the set up the mystery box and flee guy. Ep. 9 might actually be his chance to prove he is more than that. And getting rid of Kasdan means he can take full credit.

Can't wait to find out Kylo Ren just needed Snoke's blood to bring Han back.

EDIT: And yet ....

KK's release talked about the closing of the trilogy, as opposed to the closing of this saga. So maybe Ep. 9 will set up the mystery box to end all mystery box that can only be satisfied with another trilogy. Get me Mr. Mystery Box, now.

 

T'heck with episode X-XII I want them to skip forward to Episode XIII-XV for the SSST, give about a decade-ish or more for the surviving ST protagonists to age and then to the SSSTPT with Episode X-XII!

 

It really shouldn't. It's literally the saying of "you get what you pay more" made tangible.

The issue was always going to arise that people who thought they knew what this era looked like (as badly written and nightmarish as it was) didn't get closure either side of The Force Awakens. Instead of being patient and filling the gaps in with their imagination until the canon custodians do it for them, they go into fully-fledged entitlement mode and demand all the details be immediately known.

It's sad, because the unknown is really seductive. But, they want it all. Just like Freddie Mercury did. And look what happened to him. Dead, from exposure to too much post-NJO material.

 

Why bother? Just kill the old cast off by having them on a planet that goes boom in Ep X, shift the story to new, unknown, cheaper cast - rinse and repeat.

Sorry, was that too cynical?

 

I was willing to give the new canon a chance specifically because JJ was off after TFA. But with him coming back I just lost all interest. Novels and comics have ranged from average to boring and keeping up with it feels like a chore. Been indifferent toward the Han Solo movie and I don't need a second Starkiller over a forest planet with tribal porgs. So yeah I'm pretty much done with the new canon. At least I have the EU.

 

I thought Kasdan claimed he only wants to be in SW if Han is in it (thus writing TFA and Solo film). He may seem to have some kind of Han fixation.

What I don't understand are some claims that Kasdan is the only one who can write Han. Last I checked, Han was written quite well in 1977 without any Kasdan involvement.

 

That's like saying "Down with le Carre, I at least have ghost-written Tom Clancy books!"

Like you're literally picking badly written hack fiction simply because you know it.

The sad thing is, most of the rabid fans who like the EU would, in 1977, probably have hated ANH too.

 

While I don't deny a lot of the EU is badly written, what makes TFA immune from being badly written hack fiction? Because it's a film? Because Disney approved it? Because a LOT of people I know describe TFA as literally badly written hack fiction...

TFA made a lot of money, but so did Heir to the Empire upon release (going to number 1 over John Grisham).

 

So not a opening weekend show for Episode IX then?

 

Apparently your pool of people doesn't include the 342 critics who reviewed the movie positively, or the 198,348 viewers who gave it good reviews.

If you think it's hack fanfiction, fine. Tell me why you think it is. Give your opinions. But just saying "I know people who believe this" doesn't help your argument.

 

Heir to the Empire also got rave reviews. And in China, TFA didn't do that well. If rave reviews immunize TFA from being bad, then it should do the same for say, Heir.

I've made many posts on why TFA isn't good. Here's a small sample: But TFA had desert planet, superweapon destroying planets, droid carrying vital info, ESB bridge scene between father and son, Han in debt again, I probably forgot some stuff.

You can search through my earlier postings to find more, I'm a bit busy now. But don't accuse me of not giving my opinion, when I have detailed it many times on this board. At least try to research my previous postings first.

And while others say it's hack fiction, I never said that about TFA. Other people I know did. Reread my post, read my previous posts, etc. I will say TFA isn't that good.

 

OK but are those people you know EU fans?

I don't think HTTH, it being one of a book of three which I think was the only good Star Wars books ever written, helps. It retreads a lot of ground, but does so by cleverly putting Mara, not Luke, on the hero's journey.

What people fail to realise, wrapped up on the spectrum as they are, is that TFA is designed to be ANH for a new generation. Nothing about it really does suggest it's poorly written, and I'd doubt your friends knew good writing if it bit them (the shared critical and audience consensus is positive for TFA). What people dislike is that it's a retread of the ANH themes, but the whole idea is to build a Star Wars for a new generation that's not as awful as the prequels, which are terrible, the worst, but still better than most of the EU.

But if you're going to give new heroes to kids today, like Rey and Finn, you need them to experience a journey that's familar but different. That's the whole point of the monomyth; that these mythical stories are inherently similar or the same.

What seems to mostly drive negative sentiment for TFA are people watching it with critical adult lenses, in which case they miss the fact it's very much a child-like experience; or people who are too fat and angry at the EU's cancellation to accept any disruption to what they already knew.

Rogue One showed what happens when you don't follow that vague template of "Lucasian monomyth"; you get a gritty and adult oriented Star Wars that isn't as universal as the OT was.

Smarter people than you or I have conspired to being the sequel trilogy to life...

 

We've had Imperial Remnant's with Dark Side war lords/Force users since the 70's.
Thrawn with Joruus C'Boath, Jerec and several Inquisitors, Daala, Desaan and Empire Reborn, Brakiss and the Second Imperium, Lumiya, Isard, Zzinji, etc. And now, we have Snoke, Kylo Ren, Hux, Phasma and the FO.

Give me something new.
The Yuuzhan Vong, Killiks, Lost Tribe and Abeloth did that. NJO series is my ST. DNT/LOTF/FOTJ have issues, won't deny it but TFA does not get a pass from me.

Hopefully Snoke has some interesting origins.

 

Most of the people who call TFA hack fiction I know are regular people who know nothing about the EU. They couldn't tell a Mara Jade from a Vong. One of these people is in Russia, where there is even less EU presence and she probably doesn't even know there are novels.

Please stop assuming all people who dislike TFA are EU fans, it's so condescending. The people I cited don't even know the EU!!

 

I also love anecdotal evidence. It's my favorite kind.

 

I'd give names but they'd be angry about it wouldn't they? What do you want me to do? EDIT: Removed, shouldn't have to identify people on here without their permission.

 

[quote="sidv88, post: 54540029, member: 1211293



Heir to the Empire also got rave reviews. [/quote]

It was also:

a) good
b) Written by someone who is a Real Author and not who otherwise will have a "will write franchise genre fiction for food" sign around their necks.

and

c) Again, a retread of the OT plot that most people didn't notice was Mara's journey, not Luke's.

Mara = Luke
Karrde = Han
Vader = Thrawn
Emperor = C'Baoth

I mean, they literally escape from the Belly of the Beast. She literally rejects the Call to Action. You just think the main heroes are Luke/Han/Chewie/Leia/Lando.

 

Nah, a cam download would suffice.

Quality is subjective, I look for fun which is something the nu-canon doesn't provide for me.

I had the ambition to lose my belly, but what does their weight have to do with anything.

 

I'm saying that Anecdotal Evidence is the worst kind of evidence. Because, every time you say "All these people I know don't like the movie" I can just post another screenshot of the RT page and that's that.

 

I listed the people in my edit, even where they live. sigh. I shouldn't have had to do that.

 

That isn't the point.

The point is that Anecdotal Evidence, as a whole regardless of who you're mentioning, is not good.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/reviews?ref_=tt_urv

 

https://gyazo.com/602175ec8e22d6d8c559b22239abf654