Epsidoe III: Cliffhanger NOT Conclusion

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by the_sky-walker, Jun 17, 2002.

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  1. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    But what I really think needs to be done with Episode III is to leave the big cliffhanger of the movie and the Saga in general, is the fate whether or not Anakin dies. Meaning Anakin's presumed death after the lightsaber duel with Obi-Won should be a mystery...with this "new" character of Darth Vader opening up a new cliffhanger of who the hell he even is.

    Simply not possible. Too much dialogue in the originals gives it away to a prequels viewer. For example:

    "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil."

    "A tremor in the Force. The last time I felt it, was in the presence of my old master.

    "If once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice."

    All these lines tell us that Vader was once Obi-Wan's apprentice. In the prequels, we see Obi-Wan training an apprentice. His name is Anakin Skywalker.

    Secondly, have you ever heard the expression having you cake and eating it too? ESB was a surprise because no backstory information was given, there was no prequel trilogy. The prequels will give us that backstory. You can't expect the experience of watching the originals to stay the same when you change the order in which you watch them. The only way to preserve the surprise is to not watch the prequels first. If you start with the prequels, Vader's identity will be known.
  2. Queenie Amidala Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2000
    star 5
    Frankly, I DON'T CARE about the 20 people who don't know the revelation from ESB.

    [face_laugh] Hahahaha!

    Exactly!

    Just had to add my useless opinion into this thread, even though I haven't read through it.

    Don't you think Anakin turning into Vader is cliffhanger enough? I mean, wow. That's not exactly a happy "conclusion" to me.
  3. markdil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    I think if I saw Anakin die in Ep3, and then I heard Ben and Yoda talking about Vader being Kenobi's former apprentice, I would assume that Kenobi took a new apprentice in the 20 year gap before ANH.

    The only problem this creates is Ben's lie about "Vader betrayed and murdered your father." New viewers would immediately recognize this as a lie and they would think Ben was telling it to hide the truth that HE KILLED Luke's father. This would add a devious dimension to Ben's character that I don't think should be there.

    K-man, you also have a good point that in my previous scenario Obi-wan wouldn't know about Vader's identity. For ANH to work, somehow he has to know the truth.

    Ahhhh, I just realized something that makes all of this a moot point. Obi-wan has to try to bring Vader back from the dark side in Ep3. Otherwise the lines in ROTJ make no sense... so there is no way to conceal Vader's identity, that I can see.... UNLESS... Lucas does something crazy and leaves a HUGE portion of the story out of the movie. Like, Anakin turns and "dies" at the hand of Obi-wan in Ep3. Vader appears and starts killing off Jedi. Kenobi hides the children and then says something like, "I must confront Vader. It is my destiny. His presence in the force seems familiar to me somehow... familiar, but distorted." And then that's the last we see of Kenobi in Ep3. Then during the gap before ANH, Kenobi discovers Vader's identity, tries to turn him back, escapes and hides on Tatooine. This could work, but a lot of fans would feel cheated.
  4. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    In the 18-20 years between Episode III and ANH, Obi-Wan is living on Tattooine, keeping an eye on Luke, whom he has given to Owen and Beru. There's no room for a second apprentice.
  5. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    You know the funny thing is ESB actually changed a lot of the orignal backstory that Lucas had written.

    For example-Luke and Leia weren't brothers and sister. This was pretty much finalized in the second movie when Lucas realized he didn't want to make 9 movies. So he took the brother sister relationship from the last three and used them in the OT.

    And Lucas wasn't sure if he wanted Vader to be Lukes father or not-Kreshner convinced him that it would be more dramatic. They could figure out weather it was the truth in the next movie. Lucas was brave and decided to go with what he thought was going to be an unpopular desicion: Make Kanobi a liar, and Vader too human.

    The fact of the matter is that Lucas is NOT hiding the fact that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. The poster with Vaders shadow-AOTC Anakin shiloutte becomes Vader in shadow and speeder bike.

    The drama will come to will Luke follow the path of his father?

    I firlmy believe Lucas will have Epsiode III end very much like Godfather II. As Micheal Corlelone finally looses his soul, so will Anakin fall hard to the Darkside...and destroys everything he once loved and cherished.
  6. Momaw_Nadon Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2002
    star 1
    I think I've figured out how to maintain the reveal. Rather than hiding Vader's identity, Lucas can hide the fact that he is Luke and Leia's father.

    What if in Episode 3 there is some new character, perhaps a Jedi, who has eyes for Padme. Anakin thinks Padme cheats on him and gets pregnant. In a jealous rage, Anakin kills this Jedi, finally turning him to the dark side. Of course, Palpatine is playing Iago the whole time, convincing Anakin of Padme's infidelity. We the audience do not know that Palpatine is lying until ESB.

    This would explain why Vader would help exterminate the Jedi, revenge for a fellow Jedi Knight's treachery. Ben could claim that his old apprentice killed Luke's father and we know that Anakin did kill a man who may be Luke's father. All of the references to Vader being Ben's apprentice will still work. Since Luke's potential sire would be a Jedi, it would explain Luke's strength with the Force. Leia and Luke would still go into hiding since Vader might be a danger to them. And Luke's last name would still be Skywalker as it is Padme's married name.
  7. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    I think I've figured out how to maintain the reveal. Rather than hiding Vader's identity, Lucas can hide the fact that he is Luke and Leia's father.

    Anakin is Obi-Wan's only apprentice. That's a fact. Anakin never even finished his training. All these theories on keeping secrets depend on red herrings, which Lucas has never been known to use. Anakin is the apprentice, and Luke and Leia's father. Anakin still has to have sex with Padme; if he doesn't the children really couldn't be his. Since he does have sex with her, the children must be his. Honestly, you're putting too much thought into this if you think we'll be left wondering who won the sperm race inside Padme's ovaries.

    The surprises of the OT were only surprises because the backstory hadn't been told. You can't expect that surprise to be there when you change the order in which you watch the films. Adding the prequels changes everything. You can't expect the informative prequels to maintain the ignorance of two decades ago. These surprises only work once.


  8. shibby932 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    Momaw, you are a genius. That would work almost perfectly if done correctly. Think about it: Hugh Jackson is rumored to have a role in episode III, and the big question has been is if he will play friend or foe. Well, he could be that Jedi that has his eye for Padme. Anakin is mislead, and when he finds out that Luke destroyed the Death Star, he realizes that Luke really was his son. The only problem is that it forces Lucas to hide the berth of Leia, so the surprise in ROTJ is kept. Wow, a solution!
  9. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Hugh Jackman may be old enough to have the hots for Padme, but he's too old to be a Jedi Apprentice, especially Obi-Wan's. So he can't be a red herring for Anakin in that respect.

    Why do so many of you insist on the prequels preserving so-called surprises from two decades ago? Can't you understand that watching the series prequels-first is going to yield a different experience than watching the originals first>
  10. markdil Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    Obi-Ewan, I think we all agree with you, it is just fun to speculate how keeping the surprise could be possible, that's all.
  11. Forceuser Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 10, 2002
    star 1
    I think Ep3 should be a cliffhanger rather than a conclusion. We should be left with maybe and possibly rather than facts which then become answered in the OT, sort of like Palpatine=Emperor in Ep1. The best way so far would be momaw_nadon's idea but also we need to make it not obvious that Luke and Leia are twins too. Possibly a scene showing only 1 baby, Luke being handed over to Yoda or Ob1 and another scene with Padme holding a baby on her way to Alderaan. The new SW fans will possibly think she doesn't give up her baby knowing how hard it is. With this sort of storyline which will show real character development, the critics are bound to like it if the acting is convincing enough. It may even get positive reviews.
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