ESB: Did Luke really think he would win?

We really don't get to see enough of Luke training on Dagobah (IMO), so I never really felt he was even close to being ready to face Vader. As in the part where Yoda lifts Luke's X-wing from the swamp, Luke is is pure disbelief: "I don't believe it!"

And Yoda replies, "That is why you fail."

So, when Luke leaves to go to Cloud City, is he going simply to try and rescue his friends, or did he learn anything from Yoda's lesson? Did he really believe he could beat Vader?

He was able to "win" in the dark cave on Dagobah. Did Luke understand the message there (his face behind the Vader mask), or did he think it was just a way for him to practice? Perhaps it gave him false confidence and he felt he really could beat Vader, so now he's thinking, "I do believe it, and that is why I will not fail."

I have my own opinion on this, but I'm curious to see if anyone else has any thoughts....

 

I believe Luke was actually trying to save his friends. But if he had a chance at Vader he would take it. He was over confident in his new abilities at that point.

 

What DarthRicker said. Also, Luke was reckless - he didn't think things through. Rescuing Han and Leia was uppermost in his mind, I don't believe he'd considered the reality of a confrontation with Vader.

 

Like all padawans, he arrogant, over-confident and reckless.

 

Rescuing Han and Leia was uppermost in his mind, I don't believe he'd considered the reality of a confrontation with Vader.

"If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone...I cannot interfere."

"I..understand."

Luke knew full well what he was getting into by heading for Bespin.

 

Sorry Devilanse, I didn't mean that Luke hadn't thought at all about the confrontation with Vader - simply that in the heat of the moment, with his worry about his friends, he didn't think it through enough to realise that he couldn't win.

 

Have you ever noticed that no one mentioned Vader until Obi-Wan speaks up? I mean, Luke's all about saving his friends, and Yoda is all about finishing Luke's training, and then Ghosty-Wan pops out of nowhere and starts talking about facing Vader like that's what Luke was planning to do all along!

If I had been Luke, I would have been all "Heeeeeeeeeeeey wait wait wait! Say what?! I'm off to save my friends, not face Vader! Get on topic old man!"

Yeah.

Seriously though, Luke may have been recless enough to think he could get his friends out and avoid Vader entirely.

Great job, Obi-Wan, clue Luke into Vader being on Bespin but not bother to tell him that he's walking into a trap...sheesh.

 

Great job, Obi-Wan, clue Luke into Vader being on Bespin but not bother to tell him that he's walking into a trap...sheesh.

The only way he could have known that was if Admiral Ackbar was there to warn him, and unfortunately, he wasn't introduced until the next movie.

"It's a trap!!!"

 

I dunno, Leia did a pretty good job while being shuffled off by Jeremy Bulloch as Luke wondered why Cloud City was strangely devoid of anyone other than Imperials.

Maybe she counseled Ackbar for his swan song performance during the battle of Endor.

"Okay, Admiral, remember what we talked about?"

"Why yes, of course. If we blindly walk into a trap, I am to state the blatantly obvious."

"And what else?"

"Oh yes, and then let Lando run the battle. But Princess, there's no way we could walk into a trap. Even though we've had our butts handed to us since we started, except for that lucky shot by the absolute last fighter available against the previous Death Star, this new intelligence is just miraculous! It's like the Empire just handed it to us! We can't lose!"

 

When Luke faced Vader in ESB he was a lot like Anakin in AOTC head strong and full of arrogance that he could beat Vader like Luke says "You'll find I'm full of surprises" that's his fathers arrogance coming out, so I think he thought that he could beat Vader.

 

He was able to "win" in the dark cave on Dagobah. Did Luke understand the message there (his face behind the Vader mask), or did he think it was just a way for him to practice? Perhaps it gave him false confidence and he felt he really could beat Vader, so now he's thinking, "I do believe it, and that is why I will not fail."

Actually, Luke failed the cave test and Yoda points it out: "Remember your failure at the cave?"

I've always thought Luke was just off to save his friends. He lands at Cloud City and procedes w/his blaster drawn. Only when he realizes he's in Vader's presence does he holster the blaster and draw his lightsaber.

 

he didn't think it through enough to realise that he couldn't win.

Oh yes. Brash and "invincible"...or as Yoda put it...reckless. Absolutely agree with you.

 

While luke's actions were brave but they were also foolish . He didn't stop to think that vader helped kill Jedi Masters who spent their whole life of instruction and experience

 

Funny thing is, when I was watching the film on the big screen in 1980 at age 10, I thought Luke would win. Watching the hero fail in his task was very confusing. But luckily Kirshner (I spell that right?) had the insight to add the conclusion scene with Luke, Leia and the droids after the cliffhanger. That allowed the film to close.

I don't think I fully appreciated TESP until I was older.

 

Actually, Luke failed the cave test and Yoda points it out: "Remember your failure at the cave?"


Duh, I know, that's why I wrote "wins" in little quotation marks. I'll only excuse your ignorance if English is your second language.

 

I don't believe Luke really thought things through to be honest. He was acting impulsively.

 

Sure. He's young, he has this strange power and he knows a few tricks. He thinks he's invincible and he's a bit reckless. He wouldn't have left to save his friends if he didn't think he could succeed.

 

Luke wanted to save his friends while in the same breath wanted to fulfill his quest for becoming a Jedi. He was confident, I'll give him that. He choose to face Vader, so why would he do that thinking he wasn't going to win? Of course he felt he could win.

 

What I love about that scene is after Obi Wan tells Luke if he faces Vader he'll do it alone, and Luke tells him "I understand", Yoda gets this hopeful look on his face, almost like the mentioning of Vader will bring him back to his senses. I do believe Luke thought he could win, he knew what risk he was taking.

 

I think Luke before he left for Bespin ignored Obi Wan and Yoda's warnings not to go, but he did not grasp the full consequences that would result from his actions. When Luke takes off to go to Bespin I truely believe that Luke thinks that he can defeat Vader and free Han & Leia. Once the duel starts Vader toys with Luke tries more to psychologically play games with Luke. As the duel furthers and as Vader gets more aggressive he than finally realises that he was lead into a trap and he just hopes to get out of the duel alive!