ESB wasn't very important, was it?

That is to say, in the short term, the events of ESB in and of themselves don't have much of an impact on a grand scale. Now certainly, they set up important events that take place in ROTJ, but the stuff in ESB, were there newspapers in a GFFA, would be buried somewhere in the middle of the local section.

A run-through:
Battle of Hoth - Probably the most significant. But still, only a minor skirmish, only important in the movie because it was targeted at our hero, Luke Skywalker. Vader brings a relatively small task force (compare to the one at Endor) to take out a relatively minor Rebel base. The propaganda machines would do wonders on this one, though.

Ozzel's Death - The Admiral of the fleet perished. An obituary and a memorial. Intriguingly, this may have been the most recognized by the general public out of all these events. Probably some state funeral, with all the trappings, and an unusual lack of comments or questions as to how the Admiral died.

The pursuit of the Millenium Falcon - Some Rebels flee the Imperials. Wow, there's something that never happens! The fact that it was carrying Leia may make it slightly more important, but since she wasn't captured (for very long, at least), it didn't affect the galaxy in a major way.

Dagobah, the asteroid field, all that fun stuff - While these would have more importance later on (especially Luke's training), at the time of ESB they would hardly make ripples.

Bespin (Han, Lando, and Leia) - Important Rebels captured! Then they get away (or are given to smugglers). The Imperial takeover of Bespin could have raised a few eyebrows, though. It probably wasn't common for the Empire to seize control of a private system that they had left alone until then.

Bespin (Luke) - Sets up the incredibly important events in ROTJ, and certainly very important for Luke, but in the short term, cutting off a Rebel Commander's hand doesn't really do much to demoralize the enemy, does it?

Now compare this to the other movies. ANH - the Death Star, a major Imperial symbol blows up; Alderaan is destroyed, turning a lot of people against the Empire; the Senate is dissolved. ROTJ - The Second Death Star blows up; the Emperor dies; Vader, a major symbol as well, dies; the Imperial Fleet is pounded, and the Empire essentially comes to an end (EU notwithstanding).

Important Notice!!!: This post has nothing to do with quality, plot structure, or any other opinions of ESB as a movie. It is simply an analysis of how low-key the events in it would have been were the GFFA real.

 

heh, how true, and yet ESB is everyone's favorite .

 

The thing I always find amusing is that in ESB, the Empire never really strikes back.

In ANH, the Rebels destroy the Empire's ultimate weapon and kill everyone aboard.

In ESB, the Empire takes over Echo base. That's all. Many of the Rebels escape.

Some strike back!

And then the Empire doesn't really do anything important for the rest of the movie. They capture Han, big whoop! Then they give him away! (The Vader-Luke thing is more personal than political, I'd say!)

Still a fine movie... I just wonder about the title sometimes!



Rick McCallum loves you!

 

While I agree on most of these points, it would be hard to consolidate a lot of it into Return of the Jedi.

These are some key things that would be difficult to fit in with Jedi, without Empire and without changing the way Jedi is now:

• Han Solo's capture: While even just a line in the opening of Jedi could take care of this, many fans would be mad that it isn't seen how Han is captured or how he gets frozen in carbonite.



• Vader's Revelation: The scene where Luke learns that Vader is his father has a much greater impact on the saga when he is being told for the first time by Vader. It shows that Vader is willing to accept that he has a son instead of pretending he doesn't have a son and that Luke is just a new Jedi recruit, in turn showing that Vader still has some light side left in him by accepting this fact. (In my opinion, anyway)



• The Introduction of Lando: So, we have this new guy with the Rebels, who seems to be a good friend, and would have no idea where he came from, unless we go with the assumption that he's been with the Rebels this whole time and he's just helping out. The introduction of him as a good guy, then traitor, then good guy again was important to his character, especially with him blowing up the Death Star II.



• Han and Leia's Love Life: While not really too important to the plot, it shows how they've become much closer between ANH and ROTJ.

So while some things in it aren't too important, I think the movie is a nice break in the larger events in the galaxy and we get to see the personal side of events, and something would be missing without that. It's because this movie is small and personal that many of the larger events in ROTJ can be set up.

 

ya vader only said he was lukes father, not important, han and leis love blossoms, not important, luke being trained into great jedi which explains his major power in ROTJ, not important....riiiight dude.

 

ousley, Sith ... did you guys read his post, or just the title?


vader only said he was lukes father

Is this important to any character besides Luke, Vader and their friends? If you are a Rebel soldier on the run from the Empire, does this matter nearly as much to you as, say, Luke's actions at the Battle of Yavin?

han and leis love blossoms

Is this important to anyone besides Han, Leia and their friends?
I mean, I'm sure that Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones' personal lives mean a lot to THEM, but I would hardly qualify celebrity gossip as important!

luke being trained into great jedi which explains his major power in ROTJ

But nobody knows that's happening except Luke and Yoda.


Think IN-UNIVERSE and you'll see what he means. Of course what is in the movie turns out to be important... FOR THE AUDIENCE.

Find some random guy on the street on Coruscant three weeks after ESB takes place and ask him "What happened three weeks ago that's important to the galaxy?" He might remember the Rebel base being destroyed. Everything else he doesn't know about or doesn't care.

But we, the audience, can enjoy it all.


Rick McCallum loves you!

 

the Senate is dissolved

This is possibly the BIGGEST thing to happen in the GFFA, but is told to the audience in a throwaway line. Brilliant!

 

Well, as I recall, the opening text does say that "It is a dark time for the Rebellion." Some of the striking back has already occurred. And what I sort of imagined is that the Rebels, on the run, set up Echo Base as a sort of rearguard -- and it gets flattened very shortly after it becomes operational (they still feel like they are moving in during the early scenes). So while the destruction of Echo Base is not huge on the galactic scale, it definitely kept the momentum of offensive with the Empire.

Other than that, yes, most of the events in ESB seem trivial on the galactic scale. Considering what Luke could do, single-handed (so to speak) in ROTJ, though, things that seem trivial might not be as unimportant as they first appear...

 

What about Yoda?

 

Adam...

ESB is my least favorite of the movies, but I think that I must disagree that the title means nothing.

The Empire did Strike Back.

1. They actively looked for the Rebels.
2. They placed Bounty Hunters on the trail of the Rebel Leaders.
3. They Carbonized Han Solo.

Which all went to the intimidation factor of:

We know that you are here, Rebel Scum, and that you are on our list.



~J.Sat~
co-Prez/NJO

In my dreams here, I have seen the destruction of the Jedi. The death of the Republic. I have seen the Temple in ruins, the Senate smashed, and Coruscant itself shattered by orbital bombardment from immense ships of impossible design. I have seen Coruscant, the seat of galactic culture, become a jungle far more hostile and alien than any on Haruun Kal.
I have seen the end of civilization.
-Mace Windu, Shatterpoint

 

ESB is more about personal drama than any of the other SW films, which is why it has a more intimate scale, and is also why it is a favorite of fans as well as critics. The SW saga is a massive space epic, but it is also very character-driven (at least the OT is). ESB is the transitional middle chapter that fleshes out on the personal drama of the major players, while ANH and RotJ are the bookends containing the biggest battles.

Vader brings a relatively small task force (compare to the one at Endor) to take out a relatively minor Rebel base.

But I disagree with that attempt to downplay the Battle of Hoth. Since when is the dreaded Imperial Starfleet a "relatively small task force"? And Echo Base was not a minor outpost, but effectively command central for the Alliance at the time. The major players on both sides were involved in that battle, aside from Mon Mothma (made up for RotJ, and who really cares about that character anyway) and Palpatine. That makes it a major battle in the saga, even if it did not have as definitive an outcome as some of the others.