CT ESB - Yoda trained Obi-Wan?

Not really. Lucas was hands off with the EU prior to the creation of the show. Some stuff was given to the LucasBooks and LucasArts divisions, but mostly, he didn't have time for it. With the cartoon, he took more of an active interest and as a result changes were made based on his preferences.

 

But that's not how it happened...
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yup it pretty much was, the clones were there at the Geonosis battle were they not? or was this another clone army from the Planet Clonus that the Jedi knew about?

We know that Tyranus (later revealed to be Dooku, a Jedi that left the order around the same time Sifo Dyas was killed) was the one who recruited the clone template, Jango Fett. Kamino, the planet where the clones were being produced, was erased from the archives, something that only a Jedi could do. Sidious also tells Tyranus, after he announced that the war had begun, that everything was going according to their plans. Is it so hard to connect the dots? It's not essential to the plot to know how Dyas died. What's essential is to know that Dooku (and his master) were behind everything.

Lucas obviously thought it was important to want to explain it in the next film, as evidenced by the commentary in AOTC, unless he was misleading the audience on purpose which, well isn't very nice is it?


I agree that it's important to understand what's going on. And the clues are all there for those that want to understand it.

see above,

it's not clear whether Sifo Dyas ordered the army in the first place (if so, why?) or if it was Dooku who killed Dyas and then used his name to create the army. Anyway the whole point of this, was that leaving things to EU to sort out is very sloppy indeed.

To continue we can make a thread in PT if you like, as this was one is in serious de-rail,

so, yoda and Kenobi, quite the conundrum eh?

 

The Council reported to the Chancellor and the Loyalist Committee about the Clone Army, but it was not the Jedi's decision to use the army. It was Palpatine's decision which arose from the threat that Obi-wan reported and after he was given Emergency Powers. The Jedi just lead the army into battle.

 

The following conversation will occur in VII:

Qui-Gon: I'm Qui-Gon Jinn, Obi-Wan's master.
Luke: But Obi-Wan said Yoda was his master.
Qui-Gon: Obi-Wan doesn't speak literally. You should know that by now.

 

It's funny cause it's true.

 

That is not true. Lucas was not hands off the EU. Any story lines that involved any of the characters he created had to be passed by him before they went forward. For example, Boba Fett. There was a great write up a long time ago (on SW.com) about Fett coming back and being alive after ROTJ. Lucas had to approve it since it involved a character he created, however, the write up also stated that if you were to ask Lucas whether he thought Fett survived the Sarlacc he would say no. Chewbacca's death had to be approved by Lucas as well. So he wasn't hands off prior to the show.

Another story I read... Lucas got first rights at all the artwork that came out of the EU. One day while he was looking through the artwork he noticed a blue Jedi Twi'lek (spelling?) on the cover for a comic. He liked it so much he decided to put her in the movies. That's how Aayla Secura made it from the EU to the movies.

To further drive home the point, I also remember reading that at one point Lucas denied a story linethat would have killed Luke.

 

As for the original topic of the thread... I guess you can look at certain things in the OT as a little tongue in cheek. Obi Wan didn't exactly have time to sit and carry on a lengthy conversation with Luke, he had to get his point across. He couldn't explain the whole Padawan/Master relationship. So he just said what he needed to say to make the point stick.

 

Yes, that is true, but he wasn't completely hands on like he was with the cartoon series. He didn't dictate stories. He didn't quite dictate direction. When it came to the show, he made changes because he was that involved. Change Korriban to Moraband and having Maul being not only alive, but having lived on Dathomir rather than Iridoina. The stuff that Lucas did before that was stuff that had to be run by him, because it would affect his characters (Luke and Chewie). Original material that was created, he had no involvement in. When it came to using EU material like Secura and Kun's Lightsaber, that was different since he saw those materials and decided to incorporate it.

 

And Palpatine, if we're thinking Dark Empire.

Tom Veitch at least gave an interview in which he said the original plot for Dark Empire was changed and replaced with "Palpatine returns" after Lucas's input.

 

The original plot, as I understand it, was some sort of post-ROTJ Imperial uprising with an imposter in charge wearing Vader's armour - so GL & LFL nixed it, and GL allegedly suggested the clone Palpatine instead. Dark Empire actually predates the Zahn Trilogy - it was going to be published by Marvel, and was advertised as such, then the license was taken over by Dark Horse.

Similarly, Joruus C'baoth, the insane clone Jedi Master of Zahn's Heir to the Empire Trilogy, was originally a clone of Obi-Wan Kenobi - GL and LFL said no way. They also put the kibosh on a character who Timothy Zahn said was his favourite, I've never been able to find out just who or what that character was (might have been the clone of Obi-Wan, but from what I've read, it was probably someone else).

 

This was the interview in question:

http://www.jazmaonline.com/interviews/interviews2007.asp?intID=432

 

Nice strawman.

Yes, he intended to explain the details, but as seen in RotS, there were more important issues than that for the limited time he had. If the explanation was indeed essential (which is not, since all the clues are there), I'm sure he would prioritize it.

So, you prefer to ignore the evidence presented in AotC?

No, the essential point is that Dooku (and Sidious) were behind the creation of the army and therefore had control over both the clones and the droids. And that's what matters to understand the overall plot.

I'm not the one who has a problem with it, but if you want to continue this discussion, it would be the best thing to do.

 

Yeah, that was it - I think there's one or two others, plus a few Zahn quotes about HttE.

Point being, GL was a bit more hands-on in the early EU days - Kevin J Anderson (author of the Jedi Academy novels, plus co-author of the Tales of the Jedi comics) was quoted as saying that GL provided him with backstory about the Sith. I suspect it was just his old notes/drafts for The Star Wars about the Sith being mercenaries trained by Darklighter, an ex-Jedi who turned to the Dark Side - Anderson's Sith from the EU era were an actual race of beings, but it's interesting to consider that GL might have prompted and approved such a development.

(The TOTJ era was 4000-5000 years before the story being told, of course, so plenty of room for change)

 

Makes sense.

Splinter of the Mind's Eye is probably the EU book that owes the most to Lucas.

 

Oh, definitely - there's the Luke vs the natives scene from the rough/first draft, plus the Kaiburr Crystal from the later drafts. Alan Dean Foster has weighed in regarding GL's involvement in this book, but GL less so - SotME is one of those little anomalies like the Holiday Special that just got lost along the way when it came to what might have happened with the big picture.

I first read SotME in the mid-1990s as a 1978 first edition from a local library - the blurb on the back cover was extremely simple, all it said was that it continued the adventures of Luke Skywalker and his friends, and that Darth Vader would appear. No 'Saga' vision - this really was the first sequel to the blockbuster movie, and all it really involved was Luke on some mission with Leia in a swamp.