[ESSAY #2] Putting a Finer Point on Evil

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by ObiWan506, Feb 17, 2006.

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  1. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Either Lucas or McDiarmid mentioned that Sidious has a "soft spot" for Anakin. In another interview IMD said that he didn't touch Anakin's forehead merely "to take the temperature". Given that, and given the elaborations on that scene in the Novel and the Youth Novel, I still think that the main purpose of the touch was to transfer life energy, as is done in Reiki healing techniques, to help sustain Anakin until the medics arrive.

    It's difficult, I agree. I've tried to make sense out of it and developed an interpretation for myself; I've no idea if it concurs with what
  2. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    Wow, this sounds weird. And scary. Do people actually accomplish this [face_worried]. What is this LaVeyan Satanism, could you provide a link or something?
  3. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    If in our world anyone succeeds completely, it's a very rare thing I'd say. But then again, in SW many things are accomplished by Force users that aren't accomplished in our world, and after all, there's only one single Sith master in the whole galaxy.

    Let me lead you to the ever resourceful wikipedia - entries on Satanism, LaVeyan Satanism:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism
    and there's even an article that mentions the relationship of Sith to Satanism:
    http://www.search.com/reference/Satanism

    There's also a thread on the Saga board here called "the Sith, Satanism, and the Occult" - I can't seem to find it right now, should be quite a number of pages back.
  4. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Found it, finally: http://boards.theforce.net/the_star_wars_saga/b10456/21747724/p1/?19
  5. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    mandragora

    Thanks for the links. I don't think i'll have the time to read them before the weekend though.

    But then again, in SW many things are accomplished by Force users that aren't accomplished in our world, and after all, there's only one single Sith master in the whole galaxy.

    Fair enough. They have midichlorians to create life after all, so i guess from that on anything goes. I still don't like the idea though. But then, i have yet to read the stuff you linked, so who knows...

    From a pure storywise viewpoint, of course, I think it is essential to have a real counterpoint to the evil but redeemable Vader, and not yet another character who is evil but still has good in him.

    That's a good point. Depends on how you want to interpret the story though. Darn, no time to elaborate.

    OMG, shoot me down if i come to these boards again before weekend [face_beatup]
  6. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    If I think about it, the self transformation process actually is a major issue not only in LaVeyan Satanism but also in many other spiritual disciplines. It's just that LaVey calls the thing by its name. There are other schools, like the Wicca, or some Far Eastern schools, that use the notion of sacred names to define a "goal personality" into which the adept is to transform. I'd say that the very idea of giving sacred names to adpets implies that the school teaches self transformation in one form or another. It always has to do with overcoming prior psychological imprintings, overcoming being controlled by fear and educationally programmed modes of reaction that restrict the possibilities of genuine free choice.

    My understanding of the Sith has been along these lines for quite some time now, and I found it interesting that Luceno in "Dark Lord" seems to interpret them in a similar manner. To quote from the wookiepedia:


    Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you..."
    ? Darth Plagueis

    Plagueis did exactly what he promised. Sidious was undermined, denied, forced to lose what he most cherished and face what he most feared. Then, the vessel emptied, he was filled again, this time with a new creed, the path of the dark side of the Force, the path that would lead from power over the self to power over all:

    "You must begin by gaining power over yourself; then another; then a group, an order, a world, a species, a group of species... finally, the Galaxy itself."
    ? Darth Plagueis


    This is in essence the process of self transformation, albeit enforced in a rather rude manner with a lot of direct intervention on the part of the master. But the basic principle seems to be the same: Take away all "attachments", confront all fears, gain power over yourself by de-programming the personality and establish a new one. As an end result, there's nothing left of the former "humanity".
  7. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    1) Palpatine deforms himself for the benefit of luring Anakin to the Dark Side and possibly because he desires to outwardly project what was previously contained within. This is his moment of catharsis on multiple levels. Palpatine also kills Mace with visible satisfaction and practically orgasms after screaming, "Power! Unlimited power!".


    I'm sorry, but the idea of Palpatine deliberately deforming himself for the benefit of luring Anakin to the Dark Side is merely a theory for those fans who don't believe that Mace could have fought him on an equal level. It's a theory. It's not a fact.
  8. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    [Yoda]You must unlearn what you have learned[/Yoda] :p
    But really, i'd say the way of the Jedi might be a kind of self-transformation as well (and they got far enough from humanity too). Though in the PT it seems like they suppress their psychological imprintings, rather than overcome them, but OT-wise, I think it's the other way around.

    Isn't this new personality also somewhat "human", though?
    Started reading that stuff, but got distracted by RL, so i'm still only speculating.
  9. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Oh, I agree - I just think with the OT Jedi it's more about freeing the personality from hampering imprintings, rather eradicating it and replacing it with an entirely new personality.

    I think it depends on what you define as being "human". I think part of the "ordinary" human is that he is influenced by childhood and upbringing experiences and the resulting psychological imprintings, they often influence and even control our decisions and actions without even being noticed, subconsciously. McDiarmid stated that there are no such psychological imprints working in Palpatine, which means that in this sense he is "not human". The only means I can think of that could enable him to completely get rid of them, and still know exactly how they work and be able use them as a tool for manipulation, is that self transformation thing. It would also explain why he knows these mechanisms in the human mind and psyche so well, because the whole process involves a lot of self study, confrontation with those imprintings, "looking into the mirror". Had he simply been "born evil" and without psychological underworkings, he wouldn't understand them as well as he does and he wouldn't be able to use them for manipulation. Were they still at work, he would hardly be able to exert that amount of control over them.
  10. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    Interesting point. I'm not sure if Palpatine's ability to manipulate Anakin's emotions definitely suggests that Palpatine understands them. It would seem that way though.
    He knows what they can be used for, of course, but can he relate? This topic provokes some interesting thoughts.
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