~ESSAY CONTEST WINNER: "TWO AUDIENCES, TWO SPIRITS"~

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by DBrennan3333, Dec 28, 2004.

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  1. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    The first trilogy was built for the human spirit, the second trilogy was built for this very specific niche market that did not even exist when Star Wars came out in 1977.

    I'll agree that the first trilogy was built for everyone-- it had to be, because of course there were no fans at that point. The first trilogy had to earn the fans, and had to offer all the explanation because there were no other resources to explain.

    And I'll agree that the second trilogy seems meant for the fans, but I think it's a different fanbase than you finger in your essay. It's the fanbase of everyone-- not just OT oldtimers or adolescent action-figure collectors-- who likes Star Wars enough already to apreciate and recognize the connections between the movies. Whether that means something like lightsabers and the inevitable duels, or something like apreciating the character arcs to the fullest extent. So, yes, the 90's OT re-release was an important move, I think. ;) However, inasmuch as every artist creates for himself, this is essentially the same position George is in; Being so well-aquainted with the OT and assuming watchers of the PT are as well, it shouldn't be surprising that some of the most important clues to understanding the PT are essentially in-jokes.

    Just my 2 cents on this essay.
  2. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    Just as a note, I didn't flame. Flaming would be if I wrote an entire post dedicated to calling you an obnoxious jackass. I pointed out that rather than having a mature debate, you continuously skirt around the critique given to you and then proceed to insult the authors of these posts.

    But back to the essay. Another factor I notice the author didn't consider the preconceptions of fans when they went into the movies that might contribute to the negative opinions that have come out from it. I have often that you can somewhat blame the OT for how people anticipated and viewed the PT. In 1977, fans were going in to see something that had never been done before. In 1998, they they had an entire history of movies, books, comics, toys, etc. in their minds before they even went into the theatre to view it. This must have impacted the movie experience for some fans, if not a large percentage of them. (Ex: I actually know a girl who hates the entire prequel trilogy just because she dislikes how Lucas changed Boba Fett's backstory.) I have often wondered if the PT would have done just as well as the OT had one not preceeded the other.
  3. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    First off, inflation is constantly in flux, so the numbers are going to change ALL the time.

    Well, in that case, there really isn't much of a point for adjusting for inflation at all, is there?

    Anyway, I find it very hard to trust any list that makes Gone With the Wind the biggest box-office-success of all time. I'd really rather think that American audiences aren't quite like that, thank you.
  4. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    It is pointless, especially considering how overstated it often is. Some of my most favorite movies of all time did abysmally at the box office. Some of the critics favorites did awful (and are, as movies, awful anyway). You cannot proceed to use personal opinion as fact when so much of it is based on a number of unstable factors.


    Anyway, I find it very hard to trust any list that makes Gone With the Wind the biggest box-office-success of all time. I'd really rather think that American audiences aren't quite like that, thank you.

    Well, no, that's actually true. It was incredibly popular for it's time period. But then, that's another thing to take into consideration - the American socio-political climate when a movie is released.
  5. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    TRIUMPH OF THE FANBOYS!!!

    I've just learned that my essay - the result of honest thought and sincere effort - has been removed at the behest of the Fanboy masses.

    Way to stick up for the little guy and promote freedom of thought, fellas!

    They want your money, and they know that owning Fanboy's mind is the key to his wallet.

    Well, I put a heck of an effort into my essay, so if anybody wants me to e-mail them a copy, contact me at DBrennan3333@yahoo.com.

    Thanks to all my silent supporters!
  6. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    Hmm, Chaotic_Serenity, we seem to be seeing things from a similar but opposite perspective... I see how the OT is necessary to enjoy the PT, you see how the OT and related items can hurt the enjoyment of the PT... this is an interesting phenomenon... I should think that some fans will take it the way I'm saying and some will take it the way you are saying.

    EDIT: Removed???? Even if a certain number of people disagreed with it, I don't see any rationale for it being removed... that's strange.
  7. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    'Attack of the Clones' is better than 'Gone With the Wind,' you heard it here first folks!

    Wait....hot dawg, I'm getting another one, hot off the presses - Jango Fett is a better character than Charles Foster Kane! Ladies and Gentlemen, this is hot stuff!

    No....you're not going to believe this one....IT'S TRUE! I've just been informed that Anakin and Padme are a more romantic couple than Jack and Rose in 'Titanic!' Doubt me if you dare, but it's true!

    My goodness, folks, you never know what you're going to get during a day at TheForce.Net!



  8. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    The essay can still be found in the previous thread. At least I saw it there a few minutes ago.

    -Seldon
  9. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    'Attack of the Clones' is better than 'Gone With the Wind,' you heard it here first folks!

    Well, at least AOTC didn't have "Mammy".

    Wait....hot dawg, I'm getting another one, hot off the presses - Jango Fett is a better character than Charles Foster Kane! Ladies and Gentlemen, this is hot stuff!

    Now, I do appreciate the sarcasm there. Citizen Kane is one of my all-time favorites. However, you do have to admit that being a cloned-en masse bounty hunter is a tad more interesting than clone of William Randolph Hearst. But only a tad.


    No....you're not going to believe this one....IT'S TRUE! I've just been informed that Anakin and Padme are a more romantic couple than Jack and Rose in 'Titanic!' Doubt me if you dare, but it's true!

    Okay...actually, you're one-hundred percent right with this one. Anakin and Padme are a more romantically involving couple than Jack and Rose. But then, I'm not an adolescant girl circa 1998, or whenever that movie came out. Whatever.

  10. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    Oh spare us the melodrama, DBrennan. Any deletion of your essay is far more likely attributed to your own close-minded attitude that pervaded most of the replies to the constructive criticism you received. We tried to help you; you failed to accept it.


    Hmm, Chaotic_Serenity, we seem to be seeing things from a similar but opposite perspective... I see how the OT is necessary to enjoy the PT, you see how the OT and related items can hurt the enjoyment of the PT... this is an interesting phenomenon... I should think that some fans will take it the way I'm saying and some will take it the way you are saying.

    Oh no, I certainly see it from both perspectives. But I do believe it can certainly apply from either angle to different people. There are some people who may have liked the movies better had they not seen the OT first and vice versa. I was just pointing out that this conflict, from either angle, wasn't at all looked at by the author.

  11. ShrunkenJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2003
    star 5
    Understood, C_S ;)

    < Crazy sci-fi fangirl myself :D
  12. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Yes, the people are wrong and Star Wars Fanboy is right!

    Anakin and Padme, the laughingstock of the theater, is a more profound dynamic than Jack and Rose. Titanic, the #1 movie in the country for 13 straight weeks, the #1 movie of all time, winner of the Academy Award for Best Picture....phooey!

    I prefer Anakin and Padme in Attack of the Clones - the bad acting, the 2-D sets, the embarassingly bad dialogue, yeah, that's the one for me.

    America....you were WRONG about 'Titanic,' you were wrong about 'Gone With the Wind.' Star Wars Fanboy is here to show you the light.

    (Scoreboard: Titanic - $802,161,800
    Star Wars: Episode Two: Attack of the Clones -$334,177,900)
  13. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Yes, Chaotic Serenity, you are right....it's all my fault.

    I'm the one who wrote the essay, I'm the one who stood up for myself in the face of an assault by George Lucas's hideous little poodles (you people), I'm the guilty party, no doubt.

    My essay was twice as good as any of the crap you guys drool out in one of your lie-drenched posts about the mythical greatness of this pathetic new trilogy. I'm better looking than you people, I'm smarter, and I'm funnier.

    I did something GOOD and you worthless animals penalized me for it.
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    You based an entire essay on false presumptions. That's not good. It's misled.
    Please don't take that personally. I'm just offering my view on the essay.
  15. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Anakin and Padme, the laughingstock of the theater, is a more profound dynamic than Jack and Rose. Titanic, the #1 movie in the country for 13 straight weeks, the #1 movie of all time, winner of the Academy Award for Best Picture....phooey!

    Hey, what happened to adjusting for inflation?

    I prefer Anakin and Padme in Attack of the Clones - the bad acting, the 2-D sets, the embarassingly bad dialogue, yeah, that's the one for me.

    Doesn't this also apply to "Titanic"?
  16. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    So this is just another gusher/basher war in disguise. I'm outta here.
  17. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Jedi Ford:

    Is 'Star Wars: Episode Two: Attack of the Clones' better than 'Titanic?'

    Ah, well, ah, no.

    I mean, some people might think so, I guess. I mean, some people think that llamas are sexy, too. There's no definitive truth about opinons....but the consensus is pretty clear on the 'Star Wars: Episode Two: Attack of the Clones' vs. 'Titanic' debate.

    Hey, let's debate who was the better president: Abe Lincoln or Millard Filmore!
  18. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Wow. So it's actually come to this: Defending "Titanic".

    I believe that's my cue to get out of this one. I never thought that it would get quite this bad.
  19. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    HEY FOLKS, GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY! HE KEEPS SAYING THAT 'STAR WARS: EPISODE TWO: ATTACK OF THE CLONES' IS BETTER THAN 'TITANIC!'

    Seriously dude, are you suffering from dimensia or something?

    I don't even HAVE to defend Titanic, it's empirically great. The #1 move of all time, the most Oscars of all time, the longest run at #1 in modern film history. It was an honest smash, not the product of phony controversey and massive media.

    AOTC on the other hand....well, it sucks.

    Anyway, I'll take James Cameron (Terminator, Terminator 2, Aliens, The Abyss, True Lies, Titanic) over Lucas in an IQ test any day of the week....or in a box office showdown.

    Like I said, though, I'm sure that your love of AOTC isn't your only, let's just say, unorthodox preference.
  20. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    You know what? You're right: I do think that Millard Filmore was a better president than Abe Lincoln.
  21. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    OOOOO, you're so contrarian! How INTRIGUING.

    Dude, you're just a phony. Well, either that or a complete idiot.
  22. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    "Phony"? Who are you, Holden Caulfield?
  23. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Perhaps it might be best if everyone who has a hatchet buries it, and we all leave this thread. It seems that the moderators will be forced to take action as it is, but it might be best to quit now. The thread was to discuss the essay, and that seems quite impossible now.

    -Seldon
  24. DBrennan3333 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, retard, Holden Caulfield patented the word 'phony.' In fact, I'm also copying Han Solo, who used the word "the."

    Phony and stupid....you've got the whole package!
  25. Jedi_Ford_Prefect Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2003
    star 4
    Okay, Seldon's right. This is all getting a bit too heated. I'm going to just walk away from this thread and relax. This time, I mean it.

    And for the record, man: I was joking. No hard feelings.
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