Awards Etiquette - The Gray Areas: Awards '06 (Some Reminders)

I always love getting long replies. It makes me feel good to know that people took the time to read carefully and think about it (and I like giving replies longer than "thanks" to "great post").

 

Thanks to everyone for the clarification. I'd like to add that I think this is a really helpful thread - and not just for n00bs like myself.

 

I may not do an in-depth analysis when I give a reply, but I DO try to pick out a favorite part. I do that because as a writer it's sometimes nice to know that a section I particularly liked writing, or thought went better than expected, is also appreciated by a reader.

 

I do the same, MamaVader. I try to at least comment on the thing that I liked best or excerpt my favorite paragraph or two and put it in with a comment because my favorite reader replies have been in that format.

 

New question here.

What?s the etiquette for dropping out of a story?

I?m not talking about losing interest, and forgetting you?re even reading that story, but consciously, deliberately deciding that that story is not your cup of tea.

Ouch!

Considering the fact that there are a lot of threads talking about how to get readers, keep readers, get lurkers to de-lurk and all that, this is probably not the nicest of all topics. But I feel that it?s something that we all experience at one time or the other.

Using a non-fan fiction personal experience, I lost interest in Spy!Family when Alias Season 3 rolled around. Convoluted plots. Crazy characterization. Convoluted plots. Shoddy script-writing. Convoluted plots. (And if you?re an Alias S3 fan and you want to take me out on that, just give me a date and a place ).

I?m sure a lot of people have had that experience with a fan fiction story. We started out loving it, totally fan-girling it, but something (or many somethings happened) and we realized that the journey we were taking now was different from the one we expected to take at the start of the story. It?s breaking the unwritten contract between writer and reader that we both enter into when we start reading a story: that this story would take us on a journey worth experiencing.

So what do we do?


There are 2 methods I know of:

1, The Sudden Silence. This involves boycotting the thread, and letting the PM alerts pile up until the board ant-spam machine stops the author from sending them. A. K. A. The Coward?s Escape. This leads to feelings of confusion and a smite of bitterness from the writer especially as there?s rarely an opportunity for you to clarify if you?re no longer reviewing because the story sucks or if you just prefer to go into lurk-mode on this particular tale.

2, The Polite Rejection. This involves a polite PM (usually in reply to a story alert) that you won?t be needing alerts anymore because you?re no longer following the story. A. K. A. The Truth Hurts. This leads to feelings of unworthiness and a smite of depression from the writer especially if he/she/it is someone like me who may PM asking for some well-meant, but ultimately ego-deflating, concrit on exactly why the story has lost its appeal.


I?ve been on the receiving and the giving end of both. Is there a better way out there? [face_hopeful]


edit: softening the blow.

 

I think that it needs to vary. Gauge the response of the author to suggestions from readers. Probably the best thing to do if you don't want to be a coward, but don't want to hurt feelings is to send a PM explaining what you have enjoyed about the story, but that you probably won't be following it in the future. The author may or may not take this well, but at least you have been honest.

 

I've done both, and received both. I think it depends on the author. If the author is younger and lacking confidence, I don't tell them generally. I just stop showing up, esp if they are gaining more readers.

With an established and confident author, I tell them politely. Mostly. I believe the beauty of the internet is that we really don't owe one another explainations. I only tell folks because the update PMs are a pain to send out.

I know that if someone loses interest in mine, it really bites, but at least I'm not wasting my time on PMing them. I might even, if I respect them as an author, ask them for an honest critique. The story is important and an author should write what they need to, but most of the time, there is room for improvement.

Z

 

I will usually send the polite response to a story update, saying I've fallen behind, and ask to be removed from the pm list. It is the truth, because by the time I let them know 3 or 4 posts have passed without me. There is no insult implied, just the loss of interest in the story.

 

I'd much rather someone just politely let me know that they no longer wish to get PMs. Really, where is the insult? Our reading time grows limited, or perhaps the story is no longer something that keeps their interest. It doesn't necessarily mean any reflection on the quality of writing, it simply means, as l_n said, that it isn't their "cup of tea" anymore.

If I see that one PM update notification has not been opened, I generally don't send another. If they do open the first PM and wish me to put them back on the list then they can let me know. If not, then I've given them an easy and nonconfrontational way out.

I don't want to flood their PM box with unwanted PMs anymore than they wish to get them.

I DO think it's easier for all involved just to drop the author a note and politely ask to be dropped from the PM list. How the author reacts is more telling about the author than the "lost" reader. Why be rude when the reader has done you the courtesy of letting you know?

 

That's an excellent method, I think. I got a very polite PM the other week saying that the person was cutting back on a reading list and decided, for what I might call artistic differences, not to read any more. I was not offended at all because it was approached in a frank, nonconfrontational manner.

 

Oops! I didn't even realize people had replied to this.

I've always thought that a straight-forward but tactful PM disinclining interest was the best way. Personally, if I have to choose between Rude Rejection and Sudden Silence, I would still choose the Rejection. Sadly though, in my experience, most people seem to prefer the latter. I imagine that they didn't want to hurt my feelings, etc, etc, but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't go through feelings of confusion and hurt.

Not surprisingly, it also looks like if people prefer the latter (i.e. they'd prefer readers to just slide off the radar, instead of getting a 'Dear Writer' PM ). At least in my experience.

 

IMO, that hurts even more than a polite PM. It's even worse if you send a PM to that person and ask if they still want to stay on the list or not, and the Silence is everything that you get. I'm a relative newbie here, and I haven't gotten any polite, rejective PMs yet. Of course, I wouldn't jump up and down upon receiving them, but it's still better than Ignorance.

Sending PMs out takes much time, and sending out more PMs than you need to, takes even more time.

I just tend to think that stopping show up is really impolite (but it's more or less fine if they didn't ask a PM). Please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

Generally, if I've asked to be PMed on a story, I'm pretty darn certain it's one I want to keep following. So, even if the story reaches a place where I'm left wondering what's going on or I may not like the story line, I keep reading. Why? Two reasons. 1) I don't know the "big picture," only the author does. And if I've trusted them enough to like the story to begin with, then I'm willing to follow them to the end and see where it goes. 2) Even if the story doesn't end like I think it should, or was going to, it's not MY story! It's theirs and obviously that was the way they wanted it to go. So usually, I stick around until the end, especially if the PMs have links. I'm hopeless without links.

 

Yeah, the PM thing is really the twister because we have a way of keeping track of readers now. We'll know, for example, if a reader isn't turning up because we PM'd him/her a while ago. So the option of slipping away isn't really there anymore.


In fact it is because of this I developed a 2 count policy on PM alerts. Simply put, if I don't hear from a reader in any form after sending 2 PMs, I'll assume that the reader has decided to 'slip' away and I won't send anymore. It's got me into trouble with a few readers (they were still reading and thought I was 'snubbing' them) but the alternative is pretty hairy. The boards usually have a no-spamming policy that limits the number of unopened PMs you have sent at any given time. I know a lot of writers who have found themselves unable to send PMs because they reached the maximum without even realizing it.

 

I think I have near 30 people on my PM list. I have it down to about 26. I can't send PMs to at least one of those on my PM list... :: sigh :: I don't really like PMs so much on my more popular stories. I'll do it, but most of the time I'm pretty consistent. Most of the times. I might have to put those on the PM list that I haven't heard from in a while on a list so I can see if they're still interested. We'll see.

 

I'd prefer to be told, as was suggested above, that the reader was cutting his/her reading list (which is true, although sometimes only from a certain point of view...) Then I can tell myself that it wasn't a matter of the person not wanting to read the story at all or thinking it was awful; it's more a matter of limited time and simply not making the cut for some reason which could be as simple as differences in character or 'shipping preferences, or the chapters are too long/short, etc.

That would result in the least hurt feelings and the least trouble, I would think.

 

I agree. That was exactly how someone approached me and I wasn't offended at all by it.

 

When I was still a nOOb (which I still truly am ) and I started my first long story, I had a sudden influx of readers (Bless the Force!) asking for PMs. But after a few more updates I started to suspect that they were referring to other another kind of PM, because most of them never replied to the story. Not wanting to make my newbiness so obvious, I opted for sending with the next update PM a note saying something like "I mixed up my PMs list, please answer this message if you still want to receive PMs upon updates". Joyfully, most of them answered positively.

 

The PM etiquette is always confusing to me. Generally, I prefer people to say they want to be or remain on the PM list, and every now and then I re-ask users. It's nicer to hear (and say) a 'yes, please keep me on the list' than a 'no, thanks. I'm not reading any more'.... And off the top of my head, I'd say someone who's been silent for 6 updates (and equivalent PMs) is probably trying to pass a message across... At the same time, I've had one-time posters who've asked not to be dropped off the PM list because they are still reading...

Well here's my true-life/it-happened-to-me Halloween story. I once told a writer that once, and she flipped out. Not right away and not rudely. But after a few months of total silence to my PM, she replied telling me exactly how many stories I had kept following after my 'withdrawal' and how I should have had the guts to tell her that I just didn't like her writing. I don't know what was weirder (or scarier) - that she checked my latest posts to get 'evidence' against me, or that she had held a grudge and for that long.

 

...

*boggles slightly at leia_naberrie's story*

I'm not really used to this "PM list" thing, I admit. (There was one archive I posted to before where people asked for them sometimes, but it was much rarer -- I think -- and frankly I was horrible at keeping track.)

Still, I tend to assume that some people are going to lurk, and while I'd rather have the feedback and, in this format, the "up," I don't think I'd personally assume someone no longer wants PMs unless they aren't opening them. Otherwise they'd have to tell me.

I have so far avoided having to tell anybody else by not asking for PMs in the first place, even on stories I'm especially fond of. As I'm a rather erratic feedbacker this may be just as well.

 

It seems that that writer loved your feedbacks and appreciated them. And she felt..hurt/rejected that you still followed someone else's stories, but not hers. Oje!


Though, my trouble are also "official lurkers" - they like to receive PM notifications from me, read the story, but post no feedback. Whenever I ask them if they'd still like to be on the list, they respond positively and apologize for not being able to post reply because of DRL. BUT: they have time to read. It just contradicts my logics - reading an update takes five-ten minutes, but posting a couple of words about it takes onlt two or three!

After a while, I got fed up with them , and simply removed them from my list after several warnings. However, one of them got offended, and this resulted into a not-so-pleasant story.

Well, I still think of myself as of a newbie, and the situation described above just showed my true skills...

 

CrazyAni: It just contradicts my logics - reading an update takes five-ten minutes, but posting a couple of words about it takes only two or three!

For you, perhaps. For me (a chronic lurker), well . . . yes, it only takes a handful of minutes to read an update. To write a response that I'm not ashamed to post takes - I dunno, half an hour or so. It doesn't help that I usually have a really hard time coming up with something entirely positive to say. Or that I edit and re-edit until I realize I'm just posting "Great update!" and give up in disgust at my lack of writing skills.

- lazy

 

I'd never remove anybody from my pm list who didn't ask for it. I know some of them only read and don't reply. It's sad, but at least they still read...
(And being horribly bad in replying, I'm not going to stick my neck out far.)
I'd rather count 'lurkers' by opened pms than throwing them out. And for unopened pms, there are some readers that get grounded, forbidden to go online or have a nasty comp crash. I bet they'd be surprised to suddenly find themselves off the list becuase thy didn't have access for some time.

And personally, I wouldn't be offended if I was told a reader wants to drop out of the story. There's millions of reasons and it happens to books all the times. Only authors don't know because most people would not bother with writing to him and tell him: "I started your book , but then lost interest and never got to the end..."

 

Well, with the unopened PMs thing, I feel I should clarify... I've been informed that if you send someone more than a certain number of PMs that they haven't opened, you can't send them any more, and if the cumulative total of PMs you've sent that haven't been opened is too high, you can't send more to anybody. I didn't mean it as a punitive measure. *g*

Now, I don't really expect any of my PM lists to get so long that the latter becomes a concern even if a few people do stop opening them. But if someone has been grounded or dropped offline for other real-life reasons, I think I would figure that they could find the story again and catch up, if they want it, just as well with one or two PMs as with more. I'd probably try to leave a note in the last one about not wanting to clutter their inbox or run afoul of the limit, and that if they happened to catch up and want to start receiving updates again they could just let me know.