EU Debates Spinoff II: Mara Jade's sacrifice in VOTF

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Jades Fire, Mar 1, 2001.

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  1. aleja Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 3
    Exactly, Jade's Fire!

    And Mara's decision to give up the ship didn't come from Luke. She hid it from him until it was too late. And since she was surprised when she could hear the Qom Jha she obviously wasn't thinking, "Oh goodie, this will make me a Jedi Knight." She crashed the ship into the Hand of Thrawn because it was the best way to keep Parck and Fel from contacting the Imperial Remnant. That was her only concern at the time.
  2. Jades Fire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 1998
    star 4
    As aleja said, Mara is doing these nice things for her friends every once in a while. She does these nice things then goes back to her previous life. She never commits herself fully to the cause of the NR or to becoming a Jedi. After Luke tells Mara that she could be a very good Jedi if she would just commit herself to it, Mara starts thinking on that idea. Upon crashing the Jade's Fire, Mara commits herself to trying the Jedi way. Read some of the passages after the crash. Mara thinks about this new path her life might take: "her proper path" and "their proper path".
  3. EchoBase Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2000
    star 3
    Are there any stories about her where we actually see this other life she leads?
  4. HALCYONERA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Ghenis, at the time of VOTF, the Republic/Imperial War was effectively over, so the analogy you provided is inaccurate. Also the Emperor Reborn had lied to her about being the Emperor's only hand and had not informed her about his ability to transfer his life essence into new bodies, so she had no idea that he was 'alive' at the time of The Thrawn Trilogy or before the events of Dark Empire, so the Emperor betrayed her first and she was forced to flee Imperial Centre because of Ysanne Isard's anger at being displaced in the Emperor's trust. Also we have seen enough information on her past missions but we have seen that she had failed very rarely, in her attempts to assassinate Luke and Dequc initially. Given also that she later completed her mission to eliminate Dequc, that is only one failed mission that we have seen in all the time she was Palpatine's hand. If she had failed before in a mission, the Emperor would had her eliminated, as Lord Vader said " The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.".
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Haly...
    "Ghenis, at the time of VOTF, the Republic/Imperial War was effectively over, so the analogy you provided is inaccurate."

    Nope, it's right on the mark. Dark Empire occurred within six months of the conclusion of Thrawn's campaign. Mara should have whacked Luke then. But, she failed - and failed miserably - in her "last command."

    "Also the Emperor Reborn had lied to her about being the Emperor's only hand..."

    We have no idea what the Emperor told her explicitly about being the Emperor's Hand. Besides, she met at least one other one. If she was unable to figure it out, then she was a poor excuse for an Intel operative as well.

    [/i]"and had not informed her about his ability to transfer his life essence into new bodies, so she had no idea that he was 'alive' at the time of The Thrawn Trilogy or before the events of Dark Empire[/i]"

    Why does he have to "inform" her about his ability to transfer bodies!?! That's irrelevent to the discussion. Mara Jade is the Emperor's servent and he's not obligated to share with her his most closely-guarded secrets.

    "...so the Emperor betrayed her first"

    Nope, nothing erases the fact that Mara Jade refused to kill Luke, nor does it erase the fact that any such perceived betrayal by Palpatine by not telling her he was alive isn't even connected to Mara's failure.

    "...and she was forced to flee Imperial Centre because of Ysanne Isard's anger at being displaced in the Emperor's trust. Also we have seen enough information on her past missions but we have seen that she had failed very rarely..."

    Nope. We haven't seen many of her past missions at all, and those past missions we have seen, we've seen her screw them up.

    "...in her attempts to assassinate Luke and Dequc initially. Given also that she later completed her mission to eliminate Dequc, that is only one failed mission that we have seen in all the time she was Palpatine's hand."

    In Dequc's case, if you kill enough people who look like him, you're bound to stumble on the right target accidently. Luke Skywalker is indeed her worst failure as a Hand - probably the worst failure of any Hand.

    "...If she had failed before in a mission, the Emperor would had her eliminated, as Lord Vader said " The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am."."

    As Luke was her worst failure, he had preparations to do just that - kill her off because of her failure.
  6. HALCYONERA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    Ghenis, what is exactly is your problem with Mara? Yes there are some similarities to Shira Brie but they are two very different characters.

    When she was told about Roganda Ismaren being one of the Emperor's hands she said that she was told she was the only one, besides why did she have any reason to doubt the Emperor's word at the time she was trained as his Hand? Rightly or wrongly at the time she felt a loyalty to the Emperor. Also she killed one person who looked like Dequc, so she hardly went around killing everyone who looked like Dequc as you suggest. Also the Emperor wanted to recruit Luke to replace Vader and no where in Dark Empire apart from the DE RPG Sourcebook are we given any indication that the Emperor was going to have her eliminated so what you are saying that she should spend the rest of her life obeying the orders of a despot.
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    IMO, Jade's 'sacrifice' is absolute bull. It's a frickin ship, for crying out loud! Calling that a sacrifice is like calling selling your PlayStation a sacrifice. It's not. Let's compare to some of the other sacrifices we've seen in SW:

    Ulic Qel-Droma: Lost his brother, lost access to the Force, was disgraced and (I think) nearly killed to become a full Knight.

    Obi-Wan Kenobi: Lost his father figure to become a Knight.

    Luke: Had his father die in his arms after working his arse off to save him.

    Comparing what Jade did to these is tantamount to heresy, IMO.
  8. Jades Fire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 1998
    star 4
    Nice to see this back up...

    Boba, you've missed the point. The ship is only a manifestation of what she sacrificed. She sacrificed her self, her freedom to control her own destiny. She gave herself over to an uncertain future that she could not control -- she gave in to the will of the Force.

    Just like Luke gave himself to the Force in ROTJ, to face his greatest fear, confronting Vader, his father, either to win him back to the Light, or to know forever he is lost to the dark, must be done before he could become a Jedi. The same for Mara, she had to face her greatest fear, sacrificing her independence, the ability to go whereever she wanted, whenever she wanted, giving herself over to a power or destiny she could not control.

    The Force does not dictate that all Jedi must lose a family member to become a Knight. It is different for every person.
  9. Dewlanna Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 4
    I wonder what the Solo Kids sacrificed to become Jedi Knights?
  10. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Dewlanna...
    "I wonder what the Solo Kids sacrificed to become Jedi Knights?"

    They sacrificed their entire childhoods to become Jedi Knights, and that should be enough for anyone for a lifetime. However, because they're Jedi, one could expect even greater sacrifices than that.

    All three - Jacen, Jaina and Anakin have never been allowed to experience a normal life. Even prior to all of their births they were the targets for some of the most heinous acts in the GFFA. An evil, insane Dark Jedi clone wished to corrupt Jacen and Jaina. The worst individual in the whole universe, Emperor Palpatine has put his mark on young Anakin, whom he wished to use as his new body. These kids have sacrificed probably the most of all. They carried a large burden at a very young age, even being some of the only ones who could save Luke Skywalker from a long-dead Sith spirit. These are things no child should have to deal with - molestation and abuse by evil people. Some of the most evil people ever.

    You don't think that's sacrifice enough?
  11. LanceJade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 4
    Wow.... hot discussion. Genghis, ya, the Solo kids have sacrificed alot of their childhood. That should be enough.

    Where in the Jedi code does it say that you have to sacrifice anything but yourself? We know that obi wan and luke and alot of other jedi have made huge sacrifices, but do they all have to make one? Yes, Mara's sacrifice is a little iffy to people who think its not enough, or just lame. I think that Mara's sacrifice was of personal nature and that while the ship is just that, it did have some symbolic meaning. Accept it if you will.
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