EU is canon: Proof inside (Marvel stuff too)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth Ludicrous, Mar 21, 2001.

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  1. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    I've been intending to post this for about a week now. This is form issue 3 of Star Wars Gamer.

    "Blah blah blah blah, does your article [about Marvel aliens] signify a reversal of Lucasfilm's take on the Marvel series?... Is Marvel becoming canon?"
    -Talon Dunning

    Editor's Answer:
    "For an answer, we went to Lucasfilm's own Ben Harper for a tell-all spectacular.
    Ben says:
    Good question! We have never disavowed the existence of Marvel comics. We have, whenever feasible included important events and characters from the Marvel comics in our other products. Some of the Marvel storylines before anyone knew what would happen in The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Obviously, in many places, those films contradicted what had happened in the comics. Which ones are more important? The films of course. However, Lucasfilm recognizes the creativity and diversity within the Marvel comics, and feels there is a place within the Star Wars universe for non-continuity events. You'll notice that ***books recognized as Star Wars canon are marked with Era symbols*** (so you'll know where they fall within the Star Wars timeline). The non-continuity books (at this point, the Dark Horse Star Wars Tales and Infinities: A New Hope comics) will soon be marked with a non-continuity symbol. ***Elements from Marvel which do not tread upon that which has been estalished in the films, novels, comics, et cetera, are being integrated into OFFICIAL STAR WARS CANON*** because we like them, they're cool, the aliens will be fun to use in the RPG, and, well, we were just feeling a bit nostalgic. After all, it's been over 20 years!"

    The first statement I asterisked implies all EU products with Era symbols are canon. Obviously, all of Bantam and several Del Rey novels, and most of DHC's comics came before Era symbols were even invented, so they can't really bear them, can they? But that's ok, because the second statement I asterisked does include all those novels and comics and describes how Marvel fits in as well. Notice how the word "CANON" is used in reference to "novels, comics, et cetera".
    There we have it, an offical statement, in print, from an actual Lucasfilm employee, that basically says the films, novels, comics, et cetera are all canon. Funny how it is pretty much what I have been saying all along. You can all stop arguing now.
  2. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    An actual employee other than dave land.
  3. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Dave doesn't work for Lucasfilm.
  4. Yanksfan Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2000
    star 5
    Ben Harper?

    Huh? What?

    Isn't he a musician?
  5. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Darth Ludicrous...

    I wish to thank you for getting around to it. I was actually going to post the same as well, but have been caught up in finding out why Zahn has fallen out of favor.

    However, and not an attack, I note that those words, this post, means much, much more coming from you. We have been at odds regarding Marvel for nearly my entire time on TF.N. Not just regarding Marvel's place in the official continuity now, but also it's place in the past (say the early 1990's for example). There was that thread where you, me, Bror Jace and the gang were all addressing this specifically.

    I have to say that LFL has finally backed up what I've been saying the whole time...
    "Good question! We have never disavowed the existence of Marvel comics."

    You know just as well as I do the strong feelings that people have on the matter. I just wanted to say thanks for putting this topic up. Hopefully those that thought otherwise (by incorrectly basing one's entire LFL stance on some past words by Dark Horse Comics) now _FINALLY_ understand that they were wrong.

    I forgot which thread that discussion was, and I'll repost there if I ever track it down, since it may have more relevance there.

    But, I think this thread means more coming from a not-so-big Marvel fan (being diplomatic), than myself - a rather strong Marvel fan.
  6. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    I'd say that "canon" in that article really means "official".
    Unless George Lucas is involved in creating it, and comes right out and says that anything EU is canon, there's no way I'll accept anything but the films as such.
  7. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    I just have one question--would there be anyway that you could get some higher-up confirmation of this, DL?

    And exactly when did GL come out and say what he considers to be 'canon?' Quote please.

    I find this really odd . . . here is what the Canonites could see as their A-Bomb, yet they never present any solid proof that GL actually made comments in this vein.
  8. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Remember that editors from DH was speaking to the editors at WOTC about putting followup stories of tales. Maybe the editor at DH influenced the other editor from wotc to change views on everything. I point back to that editorial comic in tales 6, were dave land using allan kauch puppet character calls everything but tales canon.

    It just to much like an influencing coincidence to me. I'm still skepticle.
  9. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    EU is canon until contradicted. That's my take on the matter.
  10. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Okay, I found it..."Are the NJO Books *THAT* Bad." A discussion which somehow got sidetracked into discussing Marvel's place in continuity.

    I posted my whole rant on this and some of the things people said over there to that thread:
    http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=1577533&replies=137&page=6
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Marvel should be part of the Continuity I just don't agree with this terminology that WOTC and DH has been using all of the sudden, about the meaning of canon, it just seems way out there.

    I like the canon tier approach. movies and series lucas directly was involved in are canon. movie novelizations, movie comics and radio dramas are second level of canon.

    Everything else is part of the official continuity, from novels, to games, to comics, to kid's books to WEG, etc.

    It just seems cleaner than dumping everything into a flawed meaning of canon.

    Until I hear lucas, or sansweet, or the new continuity editor at lucasfilm, I will be skeptical on this flawed sounding meaning of canon.

    But until then I will still use this new meaning of canon since it's official documentation, so it's official word, if anyone needs brings it up, to show what some people believe that officially work for LFL, and it's licensing.

    I'm just skeptical it may not go all the way to the top of LFL as company.
  12. Darth Ludicrous Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2000
    star 5
    Actually, Ghengis, it does fit with what I have been saying. Characters and events from Marvel can exist and occur, just not all of them.
  13. RabidWolfe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 1999
    star 1
    Vindication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    **high fives all around***
    Hey Genghis12 - party at my place!

    (gets of his emotional high)

    it's nice to know that the LFL employees are still interested and willing to wrok as much as they can in, though I think there is actually very little that couldn't fit in - the biggest problem is that of Jabba - and Timetales and Genghis12 have handled that one fairly well.

  14. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    RabidWolfe...
    "Vindication!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    **high fives all around***
    Hey Genghis12 - party at my place!"

    This deserves a :D
    ...And another one for good measure :D

    Sorry, just had to add a third :D

    How much brew you want me to bring - at least a 3 kegger for something of this magnitude ;)
  15. Chewbacca of Kashyyyk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 1999
    star 3
  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Canon is what Napoleon used to beat the crap out of his own people and put them into submission :D.
  17. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    This is...unfortunate .

    I dislike Marvel and I certainly don't think it improves the EU, but sadly it looks like the people at the top disagree .I will of course ignore Marvel to the best of my ability, but I very much fear that it will be used again in the EU in a major fashion .

    I belive Capt. Edmund Blackadder expressed the feelings best: "I believe the phrase rhymes with 'clucking bell'" .

    Anyone else dissapointed ?

    Yours
  18. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    What's the point of being disapointed. I mean it's just a story in a fictional universe. If you don't like you don't have to read it. It won't hurt you for it to be on an official timeline, so don't get bent out of shape over it.

    Mind you if something does get used from marvel, I doubt it will hurt the story in the least. Authors should be expected to do a good job, stop with the pesimistic attidude.
  19. Muke_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2000
    star 4
    RNOLAN is just disapointed because his P.O.V was proven wrong. I mean what other reason? I dont think his entire veiws of the Star Wars universe are going to come crumbling to peices over some comics he's never read and has decided he doesnt like. People around here just let the mob make up their minds for them. If people would actually read the Marvel SW scans on the internet they might actually like them.

    But that would involve opening their minds..And in Star Wars fandom opening your mind is scaaaaary.


    Better to stick to preconceived notions than experiencing things yourselves, eh? ;)
  20. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    Actually Muke_Skywalker I HAVE read the scans .

    Believe it or not some people who read the comics don't enjoy them .

    I must the attitude of many Marvel fans has increased the scale of my aversion a bit, but it existed anyway .

    Valiento: I am not a comletist like yourself (just the opposite !) so I can't adopt quite so calm an attitude .Nevertheless you have a point, but it is distressing .

    Yours
  21. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
    "***Elements from Marvel which do not tread upon that which has been estalished in the films, novels, comics, et cetera, are being integrated into OFFICIAL STAR WARS CANON***"

    Then why the frack can't they do that with Tales!

    Thats freakin' poodoo!
  22. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Because someone is too lazy.
  23. LawgSkrak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 1999
    star 4
    Canons to the left of them, canons to the right of them
  24. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Heehee. :)

    I love Black Adder.
  25. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Wedge88...
    "Then why the frack can't they do that with Tales!"

    Because man, this is CANON we're talking about...or was it continuity...or was it official...or official continuity...or Expanded Universe Canon...EU continuity...Official Expanded Canon Continuity...Canon Universe...

    Damn, forgot what we were talking about. :D
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