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Lit EU vs. Films?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sable_Hart, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Only era of Mandalore I personally care for is the KOTOR era.
     
  2. Chewbacca89

    Chewbacca89 Jedi Master star 5

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    Oct 25, 2012
  3. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    Indeed. Specially in comparison with what we had.
     
  4. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Sarcasm.
     
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  5. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    On your part, not on mine (which was why I replied).
     
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  6. GGrievous

    GGrievous Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Actually it seemed like that you didn't get it. ;)
     
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  7. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 7, 2009
    I did. If not for the fact that you had already sarcastically stated the same thing more than once for no apparent reason (thus why I replied again):

     
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  8. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Here are several:
    1. Han and Leia getting married and continuing to be married (i.e. not divorced)
    2. All of the big 3 (and Lando) continuing to be alive at that point in the timeline
    3. Luke being the Grand Master of the Jedi Order
    4. The existence of a new Jedi Order
    5. R2-D2 and C3PO still functioning and memory wipe free
    That being said, there also a huge amount of room for the script to throw in some off hand comments or background details that cause major problems for the EU.
     
  9. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 2, 2010
    All of those things, however, with the possible exception of Lando's survival (and Lando's actually old enough that he could die of natural causes at any point post-50 ABY and it would be no big deal) have been long under Lucas' direct approval, so they were going to be part of new films regardless of what happens to the EU.

    The last line is well taken. It is certainly possible to casually destroy existing continuity via offhand additions or even direct pandering - several TCW continuity snafus have involved putting 'cool' things or people like Magnaguards or Dengar into the timeline before they are suppossed to exist. This is actually the one area where Disney ownership is a plus - the Walt Disney Corporation is much more meticulous about this sort of thing than George Lucas ever was.
     
  10. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    They are? The Kingdom Hearts timeline sometimes makes Lucas look like he knew what he was doing all along. :p
     
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  11. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    I assume you agree though that those are all things from the EU that could not be ignored and I beat your challenge.

    Just because George Lucas approves something does not mean he would not change his mind later or that it is what he would have done. Beside, he's not in charge anymore, so although he is an adviser, his direct approval is not necessary for the characters and plot of the sequels at this point.

    How is Disney meticulous about this sort of thing exactly? Did they have a tight continuity for Lauchpad McQuack between Duck Tales and Dark Wing Duck or something? I don't think Disney has ever dealt with a continuity as large and complex as the Star Wars EU.
     
  12. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 2, 2010
    Since it wasn't my challenge you're talking to the wrong person. Regardless, that wasn't the point of my response. Sure there are some things you can't change from established EU facts on the galaxy when contemplating new films, but I was trying to state that if your only examples are things that are more or less implicit from the ending of Return of the Jedi onward, then you're not really saying anything.

    So of course, Han and Leia are going to still be married, no one was planning on divorcing them, Lucas' idea of romance was way too conservative otherwise. Likewise the big three have to be alive to make any future appearances, in we do know that Lucas overrode any suggestion of killing them off in the past (and Disney would not be so foolish as to kill one of them off-screen). It was obvious that Luke was going to found a new Jedi Order and of course he was going to be in charge. Finally the droids are fixtures of the galaxy, no one has planned on getting rid of them.
     
  13. Kyris Cavisek

    Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Not to mention Luke not being Grand Master could also be easily retconned. It was my challenge. And like stated above, to retcon those would be to change the logical direction left at the end of Episode 6. The droids will show up. However the existance of a Jedi Order WOULD throw a wrench in the plans... If they were to take the order down to 2-8 Jedi in the galaxy. The EU would probably Purge itself
     
  14. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    If they can't get Harrison Ford, we don't know what they'll write into the script.

    I'm not sure that many of those things are really implied by the OT. I think we've all been biased and influenced by 20+ years of the post-ROTJ EU.

    Why is it obvious Luke would found a new Jedi order. Yoda told him to pass on what he learned. Maybe the ST will have him working much slower and there are only a few Jedi around. Maybe he trains Leia and she becomes the Grand Master, not Luke.

    C3PO is memory wiped in ROTS. What if he is wiped again after ROTJ?

    Also, what if Han and Leia get married and have kid(s) immediately after ROTJ? What if they simply never get married but stay a couple?

    What if any of the big 3 die in Episode VII, VIII or IX?

    Lots of things can be added to the script that completely throws out the post-ROTJ EU.
     
  15. vong333

    vong333 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    I think we are all going about this the wrong way. The EU is a cash cow for anyone, and a big support for the movies, so they are going to release whatever stories are going to make money. If anything, now we arre going to see a much more looser form of continutiy than before. yeah, we have all the stuff before, but whose to stop anyone from doing stories within any era. Even if a story has been done before. Take for example the clone wars. We had all those books, video games, comic books, and the micro series, and now we have the new clone wars stuff. Two different types of clone wars, yet all star wars. One maybe higher on the canon scale than the other but they are there and can be read or viewed or played by anyone. All this speculation of the change of the EU with Disney's aqusitio and Episode 7 and we have right under our noses the clone wars thingy. Even Dark Horse with the new series is going to step on other stuff that came after a New Hope. By the way, that first issue was gorgeous and I can't wait for the second one more than the Dawn of the Jedi comic. Like the poster said before, there are good times coming. We just have to accept that there might be more versions to an event but no biggie. If the story is good, the art, the coloring why the heck not. Despite the new clone wars, in my opinion they have made that era that much richer. Every episode that covers different areas along with the novels, comic books, video games, micro series just adds to the wonder. Too bad no other era has had it that rich if you ask me.
     
  16. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2012
    That depends on one's definition of Star Wars...
     
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  17. DarthApprentice

    DarthApprentice Jedi Knight star 1

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    May 17, 2011
    Even though I'm a huge fan of the EU, I always had the idea that the different stories depend on certain points of view. :p Maybe someone tells their story a certain way, is interpreted another way, and told again in a different way. I've posted in other threads that I would very much like the new movies to respect the EU, but if Episode 7 does make things hard for the EU, I'll just take it as someone else's point of view. All the stories happened, but maybe were remembered differently.

    Now if the new movies make it where Luke never created a NJO, Jacen and Jaina never existed, etc, then my way of thinking is invalidated, but I'll cross that bridge only if I have to.
     
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  18. Kyris Cavisek

    Kyris Cavisek Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Not necessarily, since it is long long ago, it is ancient history even in the SW galaxy so the EU and the ST could both be separate accounts of the same time period. Ect...
     
  19. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 11, 2012
    What's weird is when moving picture crosses over another moving picture (I'm talking about TV - George Lucas is still kind of involved in this, as he is with video games. Not with comics at all, really). For example, the arbitrary change of TCW's Asajj Ventress' tattoos. Why? Plus, it steps on the toes of the original designer.
     
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  20. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    ...which brings you right back to the concept that there would no longer being a single continuity...
     
  21. thesevegetables

    thesevegetables Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 11, 2012
    Which is a bad business choice. Infinities isn't bestselling because it does not count in the "real" storyline. I wouldn't buy non-canon stories in separate continuities.
     
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  22. Darth_Kevin

    Darth_Kevin Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 30, 2001
    That's a tough call on the whole business choice angle. In order for the writers of Episodes VII and onward to be consistent with the EU, they'd need to do a substantial amount of research and reading in advance, and further have a few staff on hand like Leland and Pablo as consultants. Something like that could potentially delay writing the manuscripts by many months perhaps delaying release of Episode VII by up to a year. Such a delay would actually severely hurt the return on investment expected by Disney's shareholders for the purchase of the Star Wars franchise and further it could cause a decrease in the stock value and market confidence in Disney. For Disney to release Episode VII in 2015, they essentially need a manuscript by the middle of this year, which does not leave a lot of time for EU reading and research, as well as multiple revisions to fix continuity errors and mistakes.

    Assuming Disney is going to release a series of movies, additional delays in the release of the first one, and a longer time period to develop each subsequent movie could reduce their average annual revenues by hundreds of millions of dollars assuming each movie release makes at least several hundred million dollars world wide. Given those kinds of numbers, the profits seen by the EU simply cannot compete and it could be argued more money can be made by ignoring the research necessary to make the movies consistent with the EU and just release movies and other media more quickly.
     
  23. Esg

    Esg Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 2, 2012
    >Implying the EU takes a year to read in it's entirety
    >When we have books like the essential chronology and a bunch of other stuff that summarizes things
     
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  24. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 2, 2010
    As long as the writers choose a natural breakpoint in the timeline such as 25+ ABY or 50+ ABY to set the new films (and there's no reason not to use one of those two dates), the amount of material needed to be 'researched' in order to maintain the broad stroles of continuity sufficently to sustain the EU can be summarized in under five minutes. Further, for the 25+ ABY date the actual events of the EU up to that point naturally mirror the implications of ROTJ (gradual fall of the Empire, Luke building a New Jedi Order, Han and Leia married and with kids) anyway. It is not until the arrival of the Yuuzhan Vong that the post-ROTJ EU introduces something truly unexpected that actually matters (craziness on the order of say, Waru, is irrelevant to greater storylines).

    I don't think anyone expects perfect consistency. There will obviously be some modest retconning required, but the EU can survive that. Issues on the level of say, TCW would be perfectly acceptable for new movies.
     
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  25. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    I'm partial to Indomitable's time, too. I liked that guy.