Fanclub ~~EUC Jedi~~ The Guardians of Light

I think a good argument can be made for Luke as well.

I still think Anakin would have fallen, it was his destiny.

 

Yeah, I think Obi-Wan failed with Anakin in a way that Anakin failed with Padme. Obi-Wan didn't love him romantically, but he felt a passionate connection based on his own Master's (Qui-Gon) dying wish. The movies also make it seem as though he has a strong fatherly/brotherly connection to his padawan.

 

It was his destiny because Obi-Wan trained him. As it was Qui-Gon's destiny to fall against Darth Maul.

But if we're talking "what if's" here, I think that if Qui-Gon had survived, Anakin might've been saved.

 

I am no expert (so I may certainly be wrong here), but don't many masters have a sort of paternal relationship with their padawans?

 

They do. You can see that especially in RotS.

 

That I would disagree with, I believe Palpatine would have still been able to turn him to the dark side.

 

Yes, but Obi-Wan is lenient and blind when it comes to Anakin. For example, when he hides Luke and Leia. In a way, it's for the future of the Jedi, and Yoda knows about it - but he broke the Code and leaves Obi-Wan scrambling.

I still think Obi-Wan is an ideal Jedi, but I think that if he did fail Anakin, it was out of love - for Anakin and Qui-Gon. It made him lenient, he might not have been experienced enough to handle training him anyway, but I think he did the best he could have done.

 

What if Luke had been training him?

 

What if Luke had been training him?

 

I agree, Bardan. It was his destiny to turn to the Dark Side, and since movies can be controlled via prophecies, that's what ended up happening.

If anything, I think the fall would have been less sudden, because Qui-Gon had more of a reckless streak than Obi-Wan did.

 

But think about it, you say it was destiny. It was destiny because Qui-Gonn died, and Obi-Wan only trained him because his master asked him to. He wouldn't have trained him otherwise, and a Master/Knight is supposed to be able to choose his or her own Padawan. Obi-Wan didn't really choose Anakin.

Anakin was very close to avoiding the dark side, if you think about it. He actually informed the Council of Palpatine's identity. If Windu had killed him mere seconds before Anakin arrived, that's that, even with Obi-Wan as his master. I personally believe Qui-Gonn would've done a much better job training Anakin, since they understood each other so well, and both were rebellious in nature. Anakin and Obi-Wan were practically complete opposites.

 

Not buying that. Anakin strayed close to the dark side on many occasions as seen in TCW and novels. I doubt that Qui-Gonn would have been able to curb that tendency any more than Obi-Wan had, and in some ways may have spurred it further due to his own rebellious nature. Given his unique circumstances Anakin was always apt to fall to the dark side, and while I joke about it being his destiny, I do think that it would have been difficult for any Jedi to prevent it.

 

Anakin was reckless, so he was going to be on the fringe the entire time. Qui-Gon might have driven him further off the cliff.

 

Each to our own opinion, but I believe Qui-Gonn would've done a much better job.

And yes, he was always flirting with the dark side, but the only true event that caused his ultimate downfall was his inconditional love for Padme, and yet, he was so, so close to avoid the fall. I think Qui-Gonn might've prevented all of it somehow. Anakin's fall happened due to a series of events falling into place. Qui-Gonn's death was one of them.

 

Yeah we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see the fall of Qui-Gonn as all that instrumental. To me the machinations of Sidious and the peculiarities of Anakin's situation primed him for his fall regardless of who Anakin's master would have been.

 

You're forgetting his unconditional love for his mother, and the blind rage that followed that. His love for Padme was unconditional, yes, but without his mother's death and that first huge step into the dark side, he might not have feared Padme's death as much as he did, since he knew the pain of losing one so close to him.

 

Maybe you're right. We'll never know.

And Becca, exactly. I'm saying that what is for certain is that, as you and Bardan said, Anakin's situation was the cause of his fall. His situation included a series of events taking place. Leaving Tatooine and his mother at an inappropriate age, his mother's death, Qui-Gonn's death, falling in love with Padme, his relationship with Palpatine. If a couple of these were avoided, his fall could've been avoided, as well.

 

I agree with Becca and GV Also learning a lot.

 

True General, I think the difference is the importance we each place on Qui-Gonn's death. I see it as incidental, while you seem to see it as a vital in the chain of events.

 

Exactly. I think it might've been enough to tip the balance. Maybe not.

His mother's death was possibly the most important factor.

 

I'm with Bardan here, I don't think it was that important. What I do think is important is that Obi-wan took Anakin on in a sense of duty rather than because he wanted him as a padawan. I think someone else would have done better... as much as I love Obi-wan.

 

Agreed.

And as I said, his mother's death and maybe his relationship with Palpatine were absolutely crucial in his fall.

 

Now, would another Jedi (other than Obi-Wan that is) been able to prevent the relationship with Sidious and Padme from occurring?

 

I believe Gui-Gonn might've been able to do so, that's partly why I believe he could've prevented his downfall. It's truly impossibly to accurately portray these situations, but there's always a more probable outcome.

 

Yeah I don't see Qui Gonn as being one who could have, that's where our differences lie.