EUC Thread Closures

DA Thanks for PMing back, though I seriously doubted that what I had to say can change anything.

Since I'm generally getting ticked off at FID's attitude he has displayed, I'm not going to post in this thread again lest I blow a fuse. But I will leave these last few words.

If the Giant Hate group comes into being, I'll be surprised if we:

1. Can hold any debate in there since most people like leaving generic sentances like "I hate getting stuff stolen out of my truck!". Riviting... VERY open for discussions, eh? And PLEASE tell me what posts like that have to do with the EU.

I get the impression that thread isn't there for discussions anyway.

2. If discussions can be created, many people are not going to want to wade through multiple posts containing hate about characters they *do* like. This has already been discussed. It is a fact that most people cannot simply ignore posts that bother them. This only opens the door for flamings and/or insulting. It's kind of obvious that many Fanboys/ girls will defend their loved character to the death if need be. The more two people keep argueing their points to each other, the more ticked off they are likely to become.

3. And as a result of above, hurting people's feelings, bannings, and a barage of other negatives spring up.

AND I'd like to note that just because you haven't had instances like this in the past, does not mean they cannot /will not happen in the future. Ever here the expression, "Always prepare for the worst"?

Just be prepared in case that big stick of dynamite explodes in that wooden barrel.

And with that, I'm outta here.

 

If the Giant Hate group comes into being, I'll be surprised if we:

1. Can hold any debate in there since most people like leaving generic sentances like "I hate getting stuff stolen out of my truck!". Riviting... VERY open for discussions, eh? And PLEASE tell me what posts like that have to do with the EU.

I get the impression that thread isn't there for discussions anyway.

2. If discussions can be created, many people are not going to want to wade through multiple posts containing hate about characters they *do* like. This has already been discussed. It is a fact that most people cannot simply ignore posts that bother them. This only opens the door for flamings and/or insulting. It's kind of obvious that many Fanboys/ girls will defend their loved character to the death if need be. The more two people keep argueing their points to each other, the more ticked off they are likely to become.

3. And as a result of above, hurting people's feelings, bannings, and a barage of other negatives spring up.


There already was a giant hate group. These groups just didn't get picked up by the modsquad for one reason or another.


AND I'd like to note that just because you haven't had instances like this in the past, does not mean they cannot /will not happen in the future. Ever here the expression, "Always prepare for the worst"?

I don't think things are as bad as some of the doomsayers have been presenting it. Of course they're gonna think a 'giant flame war' will come about, but I happen to think they're wrong on that logic.

 

"I am not changing anything. Rather enforcing what already is."

Well, then make a Fan Community as well, since it is so sucessful for the HC. Enforce the same policy, that more than one thread to bash or gush is redundant, equally.


I still don't see any need for this to be done or enforced. If the threads are fuctioning as is and are popular, then why elimiate them? Just because a policy was decided on before? But the forum seemed to be fine without that rule being enforced.

Are there complaints about the number or activites of the hate groups?

 

Simple answer, and has been told to me before in the RPF. Why fix it if it ain't broken?

 

I think that's what we're all wondering FID.

JMA

 

Right. So as of now, with the multiple haters threads, what is broken besides the fact that the unenforced policy isn't being enforced? If you just elimate the policy, then nothing changes, and things still aren't broken. If the forum has done so well without its enforcement, then it will do just as well without the policy entirely.

 

My comments are posted. This topic has a lot of post and a lot of discussion but we still do not seem to be getting far from the original list of complaints. The inability of the people who want this to happen to present any clear reasons to move this shows me at least that it is nothing more than an "enforcing policy" issue. We should never do anything blindly. The policy is wrong and should be changed.

The fact is...no matter how you sugar coat it with good intentions, if the hate club is moved, you have created a double standard. In fact, what is really happening is a MOD is going back to the double standard that already existed.

Earlier I said the people who started this thread could do far worse than ask for discussion. I think Darth Attorney and several others took that to mean they could start flaming and trolling. However, the worst thing IMO that could happen, is that the people stop posting. In fact, from reading their posts and getting some email from them, I think that's exactly what would happen. And that, my friends, is a far worse fate.

 

Yeah...so...where did I flame or troll? ?

Edit: PPOR, LordGoldenArrow

 

PPOR? I'm not familiar with that.

And I didn't say you trolled or flamed. If that's the way it came across my apologies. I meant

"took that to mean they (as in the people who started the thread) would start trolling or flaming."

 

Cool, apologies for the misunderstanding.
I thought you meant I and several others thought we could get away with flaming and trolling this thread

For future reference, PPOR means:

Post Proof Or Retract.

 

Nah...For the most part people have been very reasonable here.

maybe be off topic but it came up earlier...
In an ideal situation (meaning we would all have to be *gasp* Vulcan's or something) we should be able to go to a thread about Mara Jade where the Fan and Hate club are combined talking about why they like/dislike the character. Her merritts/ flaws and the whole like. But we are all human and therefore people will not be able to do so reasonably. In any event, what's to keep the people who dislike MJ from posting in the fan club? Probably the fear of being called a troll or being flamed for it.

I personally liked going through the MJHC thread in specific areas because they actually seemed to have a lot of good reasons for disliking the character and why. I also have read some of the discussion on the MJFC and see the same thing. Some of the posts on both sides are well thought out. Personally, I think that would be lost by moving to the HC. I for one, don't want to go looking through the entire HC for threads about MJ. (or other characters for that matter. I'm just using the MJ as an example. One of my favorite threads is the NJO Critics one).

 

I'm not experienced in the ins and outs of the EU board, but I just thought that I'd chime in with this:

"Hate leads to suffering." What does it benefit the boards to have multiple "hate" threads where people can bash characters that many other people like? It doesn't serve any positive purpose that I can tell and it sure doesn't improve the boards. I'm not sure why such threads should exist, to be perfectly honest.

 

Because Nathan, to quash the Hatred threads would be censorship, wouldn't it?

People have just as much right to complain as they do to gush, I would hope.

JMA

 

OK, I am not a poster in the EUC, so feel free to tell me to go to hell and keep my opinion to myself.

As I understand it, the Hater Community was the only place members were supposed to be posting about their hatred of this character or whatever. It is my understanding that it was common knowledge that no other hater threads were even supposed to be started.

However, this Mara Jade Hater Thread was astarted, and via mod oversight was able to get moving. Members saw this and started a few other hater threads. Again, none of which should have even been allowed in the first place.

Do I have my facts straight here?

If my facts are straight, then the way I am currently looking at it is that the threads were illegal all throughout their existances. If the mods werent enforcing rules before, it doesnt mean that the rule never existed.

Does it suck that the threads will be shut? For those that post in them, yes, it definitely would. But if people knew from the beginning that the thread wasnt allowed, it seems to me that they should be happy they got away with it this long, rather than annoyed that the thread is being shut.

 

Such threads exist because we are all not clones. We all have an opinion about things and some people have a negative opinion about things and would like a chance to discuss it.

Why does having multiple fan clubs improve the boards?

One reason is because they promote discussion about the Star Wars universe. But so can the antifan clubs. Even DA said that discussion could be achieved.
If the policy were to have a real discussion or be removed I would have no problem with that as long as it were applied to both sides. The current policy is being unfair and being applied to only one group.

 

But if people knew from the beginning that the thread wasnt allowed, it seems to me that they should be happy they got away with it this long, rather than annoyed that the thread is being shut.

That's just it though; the rule has been nonexistent for so long that they had no idea that there even was one.

We're talking about the destroying of established communities here. The Mara Jade Haters Club is one of the most prolific threads in the EUC, and now it is just going to be lumped in with all the rest, despite it's original and on-topic content.

The thing that irks me the most is, why aren't they consolidating everything at the other end of the spectrum? If Hater threads are lumped, shouldn't Fan threads be as well? Talk about a double standard.

JMA

 

That's just it though; the rule has been nonexistent for so long that they had no idea that there even was one.

Well, it wasnt non-existant. It was non-enforced. There is a difference. The members should be aware of the policies for the boards they post in. Ignorance isnt necessarily a good defence.

The thing that irks me the most is, why aren't they consolidating everything at the other end of the spectrum? If Hater threads are lumped, shouldn't Fan threads be as well? Talk about a double standard.

I can definitely see your point here.

Now, as I understand it again, the whole reason the EUC was started was to be a place to keep the fan threads. The point of the EUC was for fan threads, and from the beginning, the Hater posts were kept in one thread. So this 'consolidation' isnt really pulling multiple threads into one, but rather continuing the forum as it was always supposed to be.

Additionally, I would imagine that being a board for avid EUers, there would be a helluva lot more people who want to post about how much they like characters etc than how much they hate characters etc. This means that more fan threads would be needed. This means that putting all fan threads into one wouldnt be the same as putting all hater threads into one.

 

"We're talking about the destroying of established communities here."

Oh please...I'm not burning villages in Vietnam here.
I'm closing one thread of discussion and asking it to move it's posting activity into another.

Let's get a grip here.....jeez.

 

So just because they are a minority, the people who have a negative opinion they wish to discuss should be treated differently?

There is a word for that....

 

Quote:

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[blockquote]The thing that irks me the most is, why aren't they consolidating everything at the other end of the spectrum? If Hater threads are lumped, shouldn't Fan threads be as well? Talk about a double standard.[/blockquote][hr]

As I quoted, "hate leads to suffering." I imagine that [b]DA[/b]'s trying to curb negativity. Looking at your thread, I'm seeing a bunch of posts that are big colored "Mara Jade sucks!" I don't see how that's good for the forum or for you. "You're focusing on the negative. Be mindful of your thoughts."

If someone started another "[Insert character] haters" thread, it'd get closed because there's already a generic "hater" thread. Yet you want [b]DA[/b] to leave your "Mara Jade haters" thread alone? How is that not a double-standard.

Again, I'm not familiar with EUC politics, but I was asked by two different people to intervene here and I really don't see why we need more than one "hate" thread. It won't be that difficult to merge with the existing "hater" thread, will it?

I don't mean to sound cold or uncaring. I understand exactly how you feel, but you have to look at it from [b]DA[/b]'s point of view, too. Someone has to make the tough decisions in the interests of keeping the forum organized.

 

So just because they are a minority, the people who have a negative opinion they wish to discuss should be treated differently?

There is a word for that....


Yes, there is a word for that. It's called 'democracy'.

DA isn't breaking any rules that haven't been made before. I don't get the idea behind your insistence on asking the same question. Sorry if that seems rude. But really. You wanted your question answered. It was answered. And you're refusing to accept the answer because it's not satisfactory to your own beliefs.

 

I've been following this with some interest. I was somewhat sypathetic towards the Couples fan clubs staying open. I'd be more sympathetic towards the Hater clubs if it wasn't for some other factors.

The Mara Haters club was started in April 2001. It was a thread that got a few posts here and there, and had accumulated less than 100 posts by July of this year, when all of a sudden the thread took off. Most of the current participants in the thread (more than 75% I'd guess) are members of a movie purist message board that has a Mara Jade Haters Club that was started in late August. In my opinion, these people are posting on the JC to bait people. When they find a particularly good bite, they copy that person's post over to their board, where they curse and flame that person to death. They have a specific thread called Mara posts from Hell. And many of these same people participate in the Bria Hater and Jaina Hater groups too. What they do on their message board is their business. Exporting their hate and, dare I say, trolling to the JC is not something I can support.

It would be one thing if these people were EU fans who didn't like Mara. It's another when the people are EU haters... who you would think wouldn't bother posting in the Expanded Universe Community board. ? Aren't these people in an EU Alcoholics Anonymous program or something? Fallen off the wagon I would say.

 

Isn't there a rule about bashing JC members outside the JC just to bash them because you cannot here? If so. Uhhh......MOD!

 

To be perfectly honest, we don't usually ban for off-boards behavior. It's frustrating to see JCers flaming others on their EZboards, but if we were to punish for off-boards behavior, it'd open up a whole new can of worms. There's no way we can moniter all the other SW boards and JC-spinoffs on the Internet, and if we allow people to send us links to people flaming them off-boards, there'd be no end of petty "he said"/"she said" crap.

That said, things that are especially bad like severely harassing or threatening someone off-boards (things of that nature) will probably have an impact on your membership on the JC. Gang trolling that is coordinated off the JC has never been tolerated. Posting is a privelege, and we reserve the right to ban anyone who threatens the community.

 

well said, Jades Fire.


The Mara Jade Haters club never *used* to be a problem. And everything that Jades Fire has said is true.

My only concern about the thread was when the people that hate Mara have posted their death matches - they have picked on the mara jade fans - and portrayed them (or specific individuals) in a way that is insulting.