EUC Thread Closures

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Sreya, Sep 12, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. LordGoldenArrow Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 2
    Someone does have to keep the forum organized. And DA has that job.
    It doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate.

    I'm not advocating that this one and ONLY one thread be left alone, I'm advocating they all be left alone unless they do something worng. Unless you apply the policy to all similar type threads (haters, clubs, or whatever) then you are specifically discrimating.

    Just because something is a rule does not make it right. I can give several examples of rules that have been handed down by governments and society believes them to have been wrong.

    If any thread is harassing a group of posters it should be shut down. If the thread is disrupting the forum it should be shut down. NOT MOVED.


  2. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    Oh please...I'm not burning villages in Vietnam here.
    I'm closing one thread of discussion and asking it to move it's posting activity into another.


    //rolleyes.gif

    Obviously my comment wasn't meant to be taken literally, but whatever. [face_plain]

    Nathan-

    My point still stands though. People have just as much right to express their individual hatred for a character as they do their individual love. Simply because the administration does not like the way that the EUC isn't all sweetness and light is no reason to go and consolidate established threads. It's the EU Community. In communities there are hatred and love. Likewise in the EUC, there are Hater Clubs and Fan Clubs. No matter what way you spin it, it is STILL a double standard to lump the Haters Clubs and not do the same to Fan Clubs.

    JMA
  3. JediMasterAaron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2000
    star 5
    You know, after this whole thing, I can definitely say that I will be posting in the EUC a whole lot less.

    Why? Because the moderators of the forum have proven to be uncaring to the wants of the community they watch over, no matter how well thought out or argued they may be. Heck, we even have people who don't frequent the forum, like Gay-Len, arguing our point in a well-organized fashion. But none of it seems to matter. It's as if you guys are sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalalalala" so you can't hear us. This really surprises me, because DA has been very polite and kind ever since I have talked with him; a quality moderator in every respect. He once said, about this recent issue, that "I'm not afraid to make unpopular decisions". Well, I respect that, but there is no need to make unpopular decisions simply to prove that you have the willpower to do so. This decision isn't unpopular because it is a form of "tough love" or something. It's unpopular because it is the wrong thing to do.

    Anyway, that's my .02.

    JMA
  4. flying_fishi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2002
    star 6
    Peh. [face_plain]

    I disagreed with the 'Character A & Character B Forever' threads, but I think this is unneccessary.

    I haven't read this whole arguement, but I'll synopsise what I think.

    Why bother even having the EUC if people can't visit the threads they like? What's next - all the pilot fan threads will be consolidated? The 'OT Characters in the EU' discussion thread? The 'Solo Fans' thread?

    Hater's communities are just as important as fan threads. If someone doesn't like something, they have just as much a right to say so as someone from the other side of the spectrum. I'm not saying that we need to allow a Hater's thread for every character in the EU, but things like the MJHC were smart.

    The Hater's Community always seemed like a "Miscellaneous Hater's" club. If you really hated that one line in that one book where that stormie does that one thing, you go to the HC to whine instead of clogging up the system by creating a whole new thread.

    Another thing - Hater's aren't all one breed. There's people who hate Luke, and people who hate Jaina, and people who hate Mara. The Jaina haters might like Luke. The Mara haters might like Luke. The Luke bashers might like Jaina and Mara.
    Does that really need to be squished into one thread?

    Anyhoo, I so want to be a mod. I can totally ignore all regular users, even when they present logical arguements to the contrary. Sweet. :)


    ~monogpfm
  5. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Logical arguments to the contrary? If they neglected policy you people would be in an uproar. And after seeing that non-JC forum I'm totally against this club now, for sure. They've turned a good idea into a piece of garbage, IMHO.
  6. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
  7. LordGoldenArrow Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 2
    EDIT: Nevermind this. Enough's been said and I don't think adding another post helps.



  8. The_Standmaiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 5
    I don't know if this has already been said, and it really has little to do with haters, so forgive me. All the 'shipper threads in EUC have been closed too and we are asked to post in the respective fan clubs of the two characters involved. Now, being a J/K shipper, it's awful annoying to try and post at all in the Jaina Solo Fan Club, because very few of its regular members share my opinion. Jaina and Kyp 4ever was a place where I could go to talk with other people who share the same (apparently) unpopular view as me. I'm sure that the members of the Mara Jade Haters Club feel the same way, and, although I like Mara, I wouldn't want to deny them that privilege (besides, the Vector Prime rewrite was funny !) I don't see why all the threads are redundant, and my views on this particular topic have already been mentioned. At least there isn't one big shipper's thread. Imagine the flames [face_shocked] . Anyway, this is really long and I doubt anyone is still reading, so I'll stop now. Just my $0.02.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Hey, whoever Jedi15 is. And I'm pretty sure they're from here. I'd just like to quote the hilarity.

    Here's Fire_Ice_Death's latest post regarding the closing of the hater threads:

    Quote:And after seeing that non-JC forum I'm totally against this club now, for sure. They've turned a good idea into a piece of garbage, IMHO.


    Whatever. Get over yourself, Mr. Wonderful.

    Don't be jealous just because our MJHC turned out to be a lot more successful that your crappy old thread.


    [face_laugh] I know it's a pseudo-flame but please, mods, don't take this quote off of here. It's my shining moment. LoL! [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    I believe the idea, Jades Fire, is to destroy from within. Or at least cause a lot of trouble. You're right, those are purists who are involved in the MJHC. Which is even more of a reason for them to close it down.


    Oh and just so you know. I've never agreed with Jades Fire on anything up until this point. Just so you don't think I'm biased. There are plenty of reasons why the MJHC should be closed.
  10. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    You think that's bad, FID? Have you read even half the stuff they say about me? I've got two whole threads devoted to me. I must be doing something right. :D

    Oh, Jedi15 was a poster here, until he flamed (I believe) Jansons_Funny_Twin via PM. He was banned for that, and had the bright idea of registering a sock and resuming his posting like nothing happened. Perma-ban.

    Side note: Yes, Jedi15, PMs are PRIVATE, but flaming via PM is still a bannable offense.
  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Hehe....I think it's funny when they can't say what they want about me, to me. I think that's funny as hell. Because it shows something about them. Personally, flames won't effect me one way or another. I don't care. At least have the guts to say it to me personally. But I guess he can't do that now can he?

    Hey, you're doing something right. They must be scared if they seem to love talking about you that much. That or they have a secret infatuation with you and Liz. But that's another story isn't it? ;)

    Also, let me publicly say that the MJHC has ceased to be an EUC club. It became a group for purists out there. I've been looking over that site. It is nothing but purists and it's probably the same people who post here under different names. In fact, some of them have the same name there as they do here. Or vice versa. That is why the MJHC should be closed. IMHO.
  12. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    They love me! They really love me! :D

    Maybe I should be afraid... :p

    It's like I'm some sort of celebrity there.

    The MJHC isn't completely purist. There's still a few EU fans that post there. Nichos_Marr and DVader316, both members of the EUDF, post there regularly. I've seen a few other EU fans posting their dislike of Mara. But nothing as virulent as what the purists post.

    :eek: I just read up one one of my threads at SOTJ. Their admin was going on about how free speech is a good thing. She actually had the audacity to throw about this quote:

    "I might not like what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

    I'm sorry, but [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh] [face_laugh]

    I think she forgot to add a little bit to the end.

    "I'll defend your right, unless you say something I don't like."

    There. That sounds about right for that site.

    Pitiful, really. They can't see that they're even more totalitarian than they claim the JC is. At least here you can't get banned for something you said on another site.
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    For the most part the purists seem to really want this thread open. They even started a thread about this thread. Which I think is overly funny.

    Hey now, we might get banned for flaming. ;) I think most people are like that though. They'll advocate free speech until you say something they don't like.


    Pitiful, really. They can't see that they're even more totalitarian than they claim the JC is. At least here you can't get banned for something you said on another site.


    Got a link that you can PM me for that thread? I'm bored, and it's late. And purist rantings amuse me. For some odd reason. ;) :p

  14. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    Amusing isn't quite right. It's more like a train wreck. You feel horrible about it, but then you take a peek anyway. Morbid curiosity.

    Anyway, I think this thread has gotten really off-topic. Sorry for my part in that.
  15. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Yeah, sorry for my part in that too. Go about your business. :D


    I've got a question for you people from the MJHC. Why do you care about the MJHC so much? Do you like starting trouble? I know some EUC'ers who aren't purists who frequent that thread. But why do you care? If you have this why exactly do you need the MJHC? What concern is Mara Jade to you all in the grand scheme of things? You're purists for crying out loud!
  16. Kadue Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2000
    star 5
    I have a couple of very specific points to address on this, then it's just general thoughts.

    20% fanfiction
    I agree with that. As to why we didn't do it in the fanfic forum, the reasons are there. We would have all been banned or flamed. Simple, really.


    Yes, it is simple. You have just painted a very big target.

    If something from a fan fic is not appropriate for the Fan Fiction forum, then it is definately not appropriate for the EUC. That would be reason enough for the thread to be shut down, and likely deleted if that percentage is accurate since there is no way it is fair for a mod to have to delete or edit that many posts.

    If any fan fics are posted in that thread again of that nature, you will be facing the wrong end of a ban screen. [face_plain]
    On the subject of useless upping posts, that is an extremely big no, and always has been. The problem is that since we started the EUC last year, we were quite happy to allow a lot of self moderation in the threads, since other members of fan clubs were likely to castigate others for that. It seems that this has changed greatly, and is a separate issue to be addressed.
    My only concern about the thread was when the people that hate Mara have posted their death matches - they have picked on the mara jade fans - and portrayed them (or specific individuals) in a way that is insulting.

    Again, if this is happening, that alone is a reason to close the thread. We (the collective administration, not just the EU and EUC mods) will not stand for any member of the boards to be insulted or ridiculed just for their likes or dislikes. It is a no-brainer bannable offence, and will definately be enforced.
    Okay, the EUC was originally created to clear Literature of the Fan Clubs and social threads that were dominating the front page. Until extremely recently, there have not been any "Hate" clubs that were not locked straight away due to the nature of their first posts, or that didn't sink like a mob informant. Hence, there wasn't as much of a watch kept on them, and it has been during the recent turmoil created about mod coverage of the EUC that these groups (really only a handfull of them) have flourished. After that turmoil was settled, suddenly there were these thousand post threads that "shouldn't" have been there.

    Now, the obvious thing to do is to correct the oversight, and enforce the current 'rules' (I use that loosely since the only total collection of rules for the EUC could have been said until recently to exist in my mind). But it seems that there is a push from some for a change to the status quo. That then requires the consideration from the mods of the forum, along with the input of members, over what can be done, and what is reasonable to expect from all sides. That of course will take time.

    But I can definitely say this, whatever the decision, there would almost certainly be a crack-down on current practices in all threads in the EUC. It is obvious that there needs some cleaning done in there, and making the different clubs stay on target by fostering actual discussion, not needless upping, and repeated statings of the same thing again and again./>/>/>/>
  17. jadesaber2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2000
    star 5
    Y'know, just peeked in there, and wonder of all wonders, there's a rather good discussion going on in there! :eek: :p It's not falling back on the same lines. The Mara haters are using new arguments to justify their hate.

    Maybe it's just the person they're discussing with, but if this keeps up, I say let them stay.
  18. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    I think most of the Hater's clubs have just turned into spam threads.

    In the MJHC, many of the posts are limited to 2 word: Mara Sucks!


    I need a bit of clarification from a Mod. Is posting a rehash of the same thing over and over again spamming?
  19. LordGoldenArrow Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 2
    Well said Kadue. Well said.

    Kadue has pointed out very specific reasons that are all against the posted rules (where anyone even a newbie can find them) for the MJHC to be closed (and not mearly moved).

    Rules are not meant to be followed blindly. Things change over time. Sometimes things change so much that invalidates the reason to have a rule. I'm sure if you go looking for "useless senseless" laws in the US I'm sure you'll find most states have several really dumb laws on the books that are not enforced and if they were ever enforced they would be taken off the books quickly.

    I think the mods and managers should try and run their boards. However, the only thing I asked for here was to give everyone equal treatment and the right to speak. At least until they (the poster) show they do not deserve it.
  20. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    The main problem with hater groups is that you can only do so much with them. It's fairly limited and you do not have the fan base that most fan clubs have. Sure there's fanfic, mocking things you could do. But beyond saying "So and so SUCKS!" there's really not that much there. The purposes of why the HC is much more suited to this because instead of being an isolated group, you actually have more than a few people who hate them. Excluding the movie purists who post at the MJHC because they hate everything EU so it's not surprising.

  21. LordGoldenArrow Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 2
    But just because something is very small or cannot go anywhere doesn't mean they still don't have the right to be as equal as someone else. If there thread dies out due to inactivity then it does...if the thread goes stale and nothing is new, then the mod closes it. Or whatever the policy for the forum is for a thread that is old.

    Someone should have the right to start a club about the Ice Cream guy on Bespin as the person who starts the thread about Luke.

    And really, if this wasn't about hate or the negativity clubs we wouldn't be having this discussion at all really. If in the EU forum, the HC was actually the place where all posters under 21 posted and they couldn't open any other threads...well, I'm certain that wouldn't last very long. Especially since some of the mods out there are under 21.

    Just treat everyone the same...
  22. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    But just because something is very small or cannot go anywhere doesn't mean they still don't have the right to be as equal as someone else. If there thread dies out due to inactivity then it does...if the thread goes stale and nothing is new, then the mod closes it. Or whatever the policy for the forum is for a thread that is old.

    Couple things before I head off to bed. First, you're right, size doesn't matter. But it does help with threads. The larger the thread the more recognition it gets. I really don't think they're closing the thread because there's a minority of posters. It's the policy that dictated this action. Secondly, that thread is growing stale. I've only seen one of the latest posts in that thread have an argument for it. Other than that it's the same old thing "Mara sucks!". In fact, it keeps getting upped by "Mara sucks" and "Mara still sucks!" that doesn't say much for the thread.

    Someone should have the right to start a club about the Ice Cream guy on Bespin as the person who starts the thread about Luke.

    And they do. Nobody is disputing that. Until a mod publicly states that, that argument is invalid.

    And really, if this wasn't about hate or the negativity clubs we wouldn't be having this discussion at all really. If in the EU forum, the HC was actually the place where all posters under 21 posted and they couldn't open any other threads...well, I'm certain that wouldn't last very long. Especially since some of the mods out there are under 21.

    Not true. Some threads are just inflammatory and deserve the padlock. This thread only thrived because of a lack of EUC mods. Not because it was meant to stay open. I share your sentiments. I had a conversation with the author of this thread about the MJHC. I don't have a problem with the MJHC. It's the presentation and the way they treat people who are against their viewpoint, that I don't like.

    Actually they do have a place like that. It's called FADA. Most posters there are under 21. I stress most because there are some over 21 fans who like Anakin Solo.



    Also, to any purists out there. Can you explain your viewpoint? I know some actually like some EU but treat it as fanfiction. But explain your stance. I'm curious about your stance. If you can, PM me your reply to this as I do not feel like getting into a purist/completist debate here.
  23. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    One funny little ideosincrisy (sp) of the MJHC, is that they are always going *rolls eyes*.

    I'm amazed that their eyes aren't stuck like that.


    And I know a lot of them to be bashers. But they're smart, and don't do it here. They do it over at SOTJ.
  24. Darth Pipes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 5
    I've commented on this decision before but I'll say it here that it is a foolish decision to close the Hater threads. This is just a reaction to Mara fans who dislike the MJHC and want to see it closed down. If you want to close down the Hater clubs and anti-EU clubs in the EUC, then you should also do the same to the anti-prequel, anti-GL threads that have exploded all over the movie forums. But that will never happen.


    BTW, Fire Ice Death, since TF.N is going to close the MJHC anyway, what does it matter if the thread keeps getting up by posting "Mara Jade sucks!" The only reason it's grown "stale" is because TF.N decided they didn't want it up anymore. Kinda drained some of the conversation right there.
  25. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    Don't talk to the EUC Mods about the Movie Forums. They don't have jurisdiction.
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