Europoll:US and Israel-the countires that threat the world peace

Israel has just Assainted the Founder of Hamas. It happened when Israeli troops where searching for Terrorist. tens of thousands of Palestianins where marching and Protesting. Hamas says there will be more Attacks on Israel.

 

Also I highly disagree with that, was Israel sometimes do (for example the killing of their enemies - this it not the right way, I think- the several warcrimes in the Near-East-Wars ,in the Third for example POW's were killed, because Zahal want not stop the ongoing assault so they decided to kill the prisoners), that they stand and look only, while the maronits massacre innocent civilians in Libanon and so on), but also clear that the other side do many really bad things too - I must say that has nothing to do with that, was the nazis has done. You can not say it is the same. I as a german think the german crimes should not use to discriminate other lands (that mean - the Holocaust and the war in the Soviet Union were things, who happend in this way very rare if ever - shame for my country, I must say). What Israel do is not right, but they not has the plan to exterminate ALL palestinians from old man (if they don't has the name Jassin...) to unborn childs. The massacre, done by the christian militia in Libanon under the eyes of Sharon - that was a crime simelar to some things the nazis do (in Russia for example). But this was not normal Israels policy (it was more crimes from a fraktion in the civil war - and parts of the israeli army has nothing against it, and is it not. Sharon must leave the army after this - what show, that Israel not think it was right. Discrimination of the palestinian is a shame for Israel (in my eyes), but it could not named SO.

 

Israel is killing the Palestinians, especially children, and decapitates many more so that they will not be productive individuals when they grow up. They have invaded their land and they are occupying Palestine using military force. They have also concentrated Palestinians in controlled areas, separated from each other.
These are exactly the things Hitler did to the Jews! The only difference is that they don't make soap out of the Palestinians, but it really wouldn't surprise me if they did! It seems that some people are totally convinced that they have the right to do what other people (Nazis) did once to themselves. What can I say... it's so sad...

 

Only a blind man can't see that 99% percent of the conflicts around the world have something to do with at least one of these two countries.
As for terrorism it's pretty clear that it wouldn't exist (at least in today's scale) if the palestines had their own counrty, JUST AS EVERYBODY ELSE DOES!)
I also can't understand why Israel should have the right to do to the Palestinians the same things the Nazis did to them!!!

Such sophisticated nonsense.

Makro is:

A)grossly unaware of the regional geopolitics driving conflict around the world, and exposing his bias in attributing it all to Israel and the US in a blanket manner, which is preposterous at face value to anyone aware of international politics.

B) woefully ignorant of the motivations of many of the islamic terrorist groups at work in the world today. It is an incorrect fallacy to assert that all terrorism would stop once palestinian statehood is established, and highly contentious that this would in fact have a marked effect on terrorism outside the middle east.

C) Guilty of the debate tactic I highlighted earlier in the thread, breaking the Israeli conflict down into racial terms, instead of rational terms dealing with security. In the real world, there is certainly ambiguity and arguments for and against the Israeli action, but portraying the arguement in racial terms (with classic reference to naziism, for good (anti-semitic) effect) sets the playing field for unthinking indignation that can't be questioned.

By the way, don't you love the coy references to the holocaust, and the slander of attributing those characteristics to the current Jewish state? Classic psychological ploy, the descendent of holocaust-denial of years past.


Thank you for illustrating some of the points that we have been trying to make.

 

Until such a time as you have shown a correct understanding of the Palestinian situation, in context, I'd refrain from any more hubris ZombieRed7. Unless you can prove the PFLP, PLO, PFLP/GC etc have ambitions outside of statehood, perhaps?

E_S

 

"As for terrorism it's pretty clear that it wouldn't exist (at least in today's scale) if the palestines had their own counrty, JUST AS EVERYBODY ELSE DOES!)"


Are you saying that all terrorism would cease, if Palestinian statehood is acheived (let alone the question of 'how much' statehood will appease various groups)? *perhaps* in the region itself, but it is ludicrous to trace all issues of Islamic terrorism around the world back to that one issue. This thread has been about the threat to *world* peace, and clearly the terrorist threats and regional conflicts around the world do not all relate back to the Palestinian statehood issue. That's mere fantasy!

I believe you misunderstood what I was asserting. If not, and you intend to state that Palestinian statehood would end international islamic terrorism, please state your case. I certainly think that terrorism and conflict would continue in Kashmir, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Pakistan, China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Spain, the United States, Algeria, Russia, etc, as they have VERY LITTLE to do with the issue of Palestine. Despite what European popular opinion incorrectly believes.

 

The Palestinians already have a state.

It is called Syria.

What Palestinians want is a state in place of Israel.

 

Yes ZombieRed7, islamic terrorism would probably stop if Israel left from Palestine, but you clearly don't want to accept it because you are a blind warmonger.
I can assure you that 90% of the people living outside of the USA don't agree with your international policy (as the poll showed) and the main reason is the outrageous support to Israel. You just can't support a nation (ANY nation) that invades the land of another. It's simple, and it can't be more simple than that!

 

Is there anybody who REALLY can't understand why people believe that U.S.A. is the greatest threat to world peace?

I cant. For all of America's fault's our goods definatley outweigh it. These feelings of anti-Americanism being a threat to the world is a hang over from the Cold War fear of America starting a Nuclear War. Its nothing new.

Yes ZombieRed7, islamic terrorism would probably stop if Israel left from Palestine, but you clearly don't want to accept it because you are a blind warmonger.

Wow what a flame! You sir lack the ability to argue when the chips are down so you resort to senseless name calling.

What this equates to is saying anybody who supports Israel is a war mongerer. Well I guess I am a war mongerer, I support Israel, and I support Palestine. I do not believe in a holocaust of a nation that has existed for half a century simply because of a previous wrong.

I can assure you that 90% of the people living outside of the USA don't agree with your international policy

Bad foreign policy does not equate being a threat to the world. What America is doing as a world leader is really no different from what Britain did in the nineteenth century. We have better weapons perhaps, more news coverage definatley, but when the chips are down and America's time on top comes to an end, history will smile kindly up on it.

Now tell me Marko, how do you think the world would look if America closed its doors, returned to its pre-world war II isolationist ways? Do you honestly think that if America returned to isolationsism, dismantled Israel, and gave the Jews territory in Wyoming that the world would enter a new period of a renassaince, an era of utopia. The two big bad beasts are dead? Tell me what do you think the world would look like?

This whole thing that the only problem with the Arab world is because of America's bullying them or the existence of Israel is a mere myth. If America was an isolationist country, and Israel didn't exist, the Arab governments and extremeists would still find issues to take up with the world. Remember this region is not developed, the governmnets are the most corrupt in the world, the people are oppressed, and they have more than their fair share of religious zealots not wanting things to change. Its just like Europe in the 17th century. Blaming America is a cop out, blaming Israel is a cop out.

However, it is Middle Eastern anti-Americanism that is the burning issue of the moment. Again this is deeply misunderstood by the chatterers of the West. For them it is simply a matter of Israel, apparently a clear case of a surrogate bullying on America's behalf, and of oil, a clear case of American greed swamping all other human considerations.

In fact, America has always had more allies in the region than it has had enemies - although, this being the Middle East, allies become enemies and vice versa with bewildering rapidity. In the 1950s and 1960s, the US and her allies worked to subvert the secular Arab nationalist power of President Nasser of Egypt by backing Islamicist groups. Good idea, bad tactics. These groups started out pro- American and became anti. The unwelcome result was the more or less total destruction of nationalism and the creation of the powerful religious movement that now haunts Arab politics.

Israel forms a part but not the whole of this picture. Islamicism makes it a larger part because of an ancient enmity that goes back to the story of the prophet's betrayal by Jewish tribes and, more recently, to the defeat and expulsion of the Moors from Christian Europe.

In this context, Arab hardliners see Israel as a further Christian-backed offensive against the Islamic world. Even without Israel, the idea of such an offensive would still be a powerful imaginative force.

People who suggest September 11 would never have happened if America had pulled back from her support for Israel are almost certainly wrong. Israel is not even in the foreground of Bin Laden's murderous imagination. The Palestinians have actually c

 

You just can't support a nation (ANY nation) that invades the land of another

On a related note, I can't believe how anyone would vote for President Stephanopoulos..

His forces murder innocent Turks all the time, while at the same time forcing an illegal occupation of Cyprus.

The Greek armies consistantly reject valid peace agreements initiated from noble Turkey, while engaging in nothing short of genocide against Turkish innocents.

Clearly Greece is made up of warmongering people, who believe in a course of action not supported by the rest of the world.

Now, my post above is purposefully silted in its views, and is nothing short of biased against a conflict that has roots from TWO sides.

I hope the parallels are obvious.

BTW: the answer to my previous question, about the country engaged in continual conflict for 50 years?

Greece.... but its really not that simple, is it?

 

On a related note, I can't believe how anyone would vote for President Stephanopoulos..

His forces murder innocent Turks all the time, while at the same time forcing an illegal occupation of Cyprus.

What are you talking about???

The Greek armies consistantly reject valid peace agreements initiated from noble Turkey, while engaging in nothing short of genocide against Turkish innocents.

What are you talking about??????

Clearly Greece is made up of warmongering people, who believe in a course of action not supported by the rest of the world.

What are you talking about?????????

Now, my post above is purposefully silted in its views, and is nothing short of biased against a conflict that has roots from TWO sides.

I hope the parallels are obvious.


HUH???!

 

Mr44, your previous post is clearly a joke, but I think you really shouldn't be joking about serious matters like that, because people who don't know about international affairs could read your post and think it's real!

Greece has been in no conflict with anybody since WWII, and Cyprus is an independent state for more that 50 years now. In 1974, Tyrkey invaded north Cyprus and occupied it. Accoring to the UNITED NATIONS the EUROPEAN UNION and ALL international organisations, north Cyprus is an occupied (non-recongizable) area, and Cyprus is still represented by it's legitimate government. Last year, Cyprus was accepted in the Europian Union after discussions with the Cyprus government, but the north part of the island is still occupied (according to all the United Nations decisions I repeat) and the occupying forces are not letting the island to be united again, just like it was before 1974.

Anyway... let's get back on topic...

 

Turns out I misinterpreted ZombieRed7 and was incorrect and out of line in my response; so I retract my previoud remarks in this thread and apologise.

E_S

 

LM, But you see, every situation has two sides. That includes issues that you might not agree with.

To you, Turkey was the invader, to the Turks, Greece was the invader.

Same with the Middle East, or the West..

You can't simply dehumanize those who you think are the opposing side, just because you don't agree.

You have to examine the situation in its entirity.

You recognize when it is about you, but can't see when it applies to you?

 

If the United States threatens world peace, then every world superpower that ever exists will threaten world peace. Of all the super powers in the history of the world, I cant think of anyone more fair and peaceful than the US. Obviously, a big reason why the Arabs hate us in the Middle East is because of the shenanigans that we pulled in the Middle East during the Cold War. We were just trying to act on our interests, and we definately arent the first country to act on the philosophy "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Actually, they arent really a friend, they are an interest.

 

To you, Turkey was the invader, to the Turks, Greece was the invader.

Same with the Middle East, or the West..

You are totaly wrong! Turkey invaded Cyprus, and Greece had nothing to do with this. Greece didn't invade anywhere! I really don't understand what you are talking about. This is not MY opinion like you said, it's the opinion of the WHOLE WORLD as expressed through the UNITED NATIONS!
I agree that some things have two sides just like you said, but this is not the case with Cyprus.

 

Makro, nevermind...

illustration + dead horse= original point lost.

 

Let's get back on topic then...

So far we have concluded that most Americans can't understand why the rest of the world (as seen in the poll) believes that America (and Israel) are the greatest threats for world peace.
Some of you wrote that American media are pro-Israel, and thus give a one-sided perception of things to the general public. This is true, and since the media in Europe (and most of the rest of the world) are not pro-Israel or pro-anything, we get a more spherical view of things. And unfortunately this view is not good for the U.S and Israel.
Take for example the FACT that there have been many times throughout the years that the U.S and Israel were the ONLY countries in the United Nations that disagreed about certain things.
IS IT LOGICAL THAT TWO COUNTRIES ARE RIGHT AND 200 ARE CONSTANTLY WRONG?
I don't think so. And this is not a unique case; it has happened many many times, but I'm not sure if the American media presents issues like that to the public.

Anyway, I think you will find my following post interesting; it was written by an american priest...

 

KK EDIT: It's easier if you just Google it and put a link to the long items.

EDIT: Thanks KK !

 

Makro your points are moot when you think the general American population believes what they see in the media and believe what current administrations say or tell us what is what "America" should or should not do. Realize this country is not a bunch collective thinkers only going off of what our government does.

 

So far we have concluded that most Americans can't understand why the rest of the world (as seen in the poll) believes that America (and Israel) are the greatest threats for world peace.

So far we have concluded that most Greeks can't understand why the rest of the world believes that Greece is the greatest threat to world peace.

See, you still completely miss my point.

You are so sure that Greece is completely innocent in something like Cyprus.. Why? Because you are Greek perhaps?

But you can't understand how anyone doesn't see your view about America, or how people question your assertion that "Israelis cut the heads off of children.."

Dude, I don't know how clearer I can be.

Certainly as a world power, America has made mistakes, and has its share of critics.

However, every action was taken within a context.

You simply provide a list illustrating how many countries America has "bombed," but do not examine why, or set those illustrations within a larger action.

If I was to simply say "YOU'RE WRONG" about America, like you do with Greece and Cyprus, would it be any more, or any less true?

 

So far we have concluded that most Greeks can't understand why the rest of the world believes that Greece is the greatest threat to world peace.

Please don't make jokes Mr44, we are supposed to be talking seriously here...

 

As I have said before, if you think the U.S. is the greatest threat to world peace, think what the state of the world would be like if the U.S. did not excersise its influence abroad.

 

yeah europe would have been much better off if the soviet union had won the cold war and was the only world superpower right now. this whole thing is so foolish. i'm glad i've moved to the usa from europe if that's what they think there. I'LL always be proud to be a us citizen. the country that helps the world even if it's hated for it.

 

We the USA are like parents of teenagers

loved for cash and hated for getting into others' business