Europoll:US and Israel-the countires that threat the world peace

I guess this europoll could be right. THE usa does not run away and apease terrorists. SO instaed of backing away to avoid a fight we will go to war to stand up for whats right. I guess we do threaten world apeasement oh i'm sorry peace.
histroy has shown backing away from killers does work really well.

 

Makro, ever heard of "irony"?

Look it up, and then re-read Mr44's posts.

E_S

 

I think you guys are wasting your breath, the best way for us to deal with people like this is just to smile and nod politely and hope they go away.

Honestly this is the type of European I can't stand trying to hold conversations with. The ones who feel Europe should play Greece to America's Rome. All we have to do is look at the general attitude that is being displayed in this forum alone, does anybody else get a feeling of being talked down too? Like we American's are some sort of ignorant fools who need a good education to get away from the governments evil brainwashing to see we have done absolutley no right ever.

Where do people get the idea that America is this stupid bully who needs the wise head of Europe to guide us because we dont have the capabilities to think on our own.

I just better start smiling and nodding.

 

Jedi_Xen makes a good point.

 

>>>>>>>I guess this europoll could be right. THE usa does not run away and apease terrorists. SO instaed of backing away to avoid a fight we will go to war to stand up for whats right. I guess we do threaten world apeasement oh i'm sorry peace.
histroy has shown backing away from killers does work really well. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Good post. And you know what? We USED to run away and appease them. After they bombed our embassies and attacked the USS Cole, we barely did anything. And as the bipartisan 9/11 commission found out today, that is pretty much how 9/11 happened. Both the Bush and Clinton administrations relied on fruitless diplomacy tactics instead of using bruit force, because we were too afraid of pissing off other nations. And we had a right to be afraid of that. THe same thing is happening to us in relation to Iraq, and the same thing is happening to Isreal. We're dammed if we do and damned if we dont.

 

Where do people get the idea that America is this stupid bully who needs the wise head of Europe to guide us because we dont have the capabilities to think on our own.

Probably from the same place that Americans get the idea that they are always a good, just and wise people acting in everyone's interests, and who have thus far not been wrong once since 1492.

I'm sorry to say it, but you're both as bad as each other.

E_S

 

It's amazing people think this way, especially after what America did in two World Wars and during the Cold War. Europe would either have been under Nazi control or part of the Soviet Bloc without American intervention, but all we hear is that the United States is as bad as Europe has been since 1492.

Ridiculous.

Has the United States made mistakes, sure. Are we as bad as Europe has been? Certainly not even close.

Americans have sacrificed our own lives and treasure throughout our history for other people's freedoms - how many other nations can say they've done that?

Sure we have national interests, just like every other nation does.

 

Sigh.

I'd love to see how your cognitive process works, DM, because you read but don't really comprehend what I say.

Incidently, I don't know why but it's mainly my posts.

Did I actually say that you had a comparable history to Europe since 1492?

No.

I said that you, as a nation act as if you've never put a foot wrong since 1492. You act as if everything you do is Good and Just, and anyone who disagrees is either pro-Terrorist or pro-<insert enemy flavour of the month>.

I love America, but you are one of the most arrogant, insular people I've met. Like the French, but Americans are also fantastically generous and overtly polite, and they tend to bathe; Frenchmen, by and large, have none of these things going for them. It's wierd, because the Americans I've met who've travelled abroad and lived overseas are some of the coolest people I know. But some of the most ignorant, foolish and frustrating people are Americans who don't know anything outside of America.

Europe has a fantasic, albeit bloody history. So does America. To pretend one is a stupid, arrogant society that belittles the other one is only useful as a guessing game as to who's being talked about; Americans on Europe, or Europeans on America.

I love both of you guys, but America, you and Europe need to get a grip and stop this pissing contest. At the end of the day, I wouldn't chose between you.

Americans have sacrificed our own lives and treasure throughout our history for other people's freedoms - how many other nations can say they've done that?


How many wars have we been there for you in?

We've never started a war, but we've fought in most major wars of the 20th Century. Heck, our boys were dying to protect England and Europe two years before you got off your isolationist platform and got involved. We were the only nation in Vietnam en masse with you, and our kill ratios were so much better than yours it's embarrasing to the US Army. We've sacrificed much when we don't have heaps to go around, and never expected anyone to owe us for it.

You don't give something with the expectation that it'll be reciprocated. Something I believe in called noblesse oblige.

E_S

 

I'm not missing anything when you said that the United States and Europe are just as bad as each other. Your statement was pretty clear.

I'm sure you can't lump me into that category, E_S (your perception of the 'ignorant, foolish and frustrating people are Americans who don't know anything outside of America'), because I don't fit into it.

I've been all over the world, and have travelled extensively. I also lived with two Yugoslavian families back when it was Communist on two separate occasions. I know enough about the world to be glad that I was born an American and am fortunate enough to live here.

My fifth (total, it's many more individual trips) time to Europe will be in May. My soon-to-be sister-in-law is Danish. I've been all over Europe and the Middle East, including the West Bank, and all over the Persian Gulf.

As far as the Aussies go, America has a great friend down under. My grandmother, a WW II veteran of the Pacific War (she served in New Guinea, the Philippines, and so on), has nothing but high regard for Australians, as do I.

Sure, Americans are a proud people (and unlike the French - and Persian Gulf countries,where I've been - we bathe. LOL).

 

As an American I have a lot of respect for Europeans in general. Europe is full of very old countries that have been through a lot of wars, which is why they may be reluctant to accept that we are now fighting World War 3. Europe recieved a lot of damage during World War 2, and the US hasnt had a war fought on its soil since the Civil War during the 1860s, (with the exception of the attacks on Pearl Harbor in 1941 and the attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001). Its just that France and Germany have agitated us. From our point of view, it seems like we are getting punished for merely trying to protect ourselves. If Hamaas attacks the US on our soil, I guarantee you we wouldnt blame Isreal for it. Im pretty sure that deep down our leaders are praising the attacks on Hamaas. They certainly havent publicly condemmed it. The only reason they dont publicly praise it is because they dont want to piss off Saudi Arabia. (Yet another good reason to remove Sadaam from Iraq. Perhaps Saudi Arabia will recognise that they need us more than we need them.) Pretty much all the conservative citezins of our country were yelling, "Way to go Isreal!!!" . And I feel sorry for Spain's former prime minister and Tony Blair. Poor Blair has to go infront of Parliament every single day to preach his reasons for going to war with the US. If Bush had to go infront of Congress everyday, his head would probably explode. I know mine would.

 

I'm not missing anything when you said that the United States and Europe are just as bad as each other. Your statement was pretty clear.

Obviously it wasn't.

Europeans complain about how America does this and that, and see no good coming out of the US.

Americans do the same for Europeans.

Why the pissing contest? Where's the love?

And I don't lump you in that category because I know you've travelled. I don't consider you to be one of those insufferable types I mentioned because you're not.

E_S

 

Sure, there is complaining on both sides of the aisle.
I think it is representative simply of the differences in thought from one side of the pond to the other.

Europeans have grown pacifistic and ever more secularistic and steeped in relative socialism in recent decades.

The United States is generally more conservative than our European counterparts. We are also generally called upon in times of crisis for military action (see Bosnia, et cetera).

Europeans are facing the threat of Islamism, just as we are here in the US. They're facing a wave of immigration from a culture and religion that does not assimilate well with other cultures. We see this problem that is plainly evident within France - and the French are growing nervous about it.

The Russians are on the verge of authoritarian rule once again.

Europe as a whole is rife with unemployment (10% in most cases, with the US being around 5.6%) and in recession.

This is a time when the US and Europe needs to be working together in the threat we all face (see Spain). However, certain nations (see France - oil for food scandal) have other priorities.

It seems to me almost that the world has once again gone mad.

 

Mate, we've been saying you're all loony for years!

The Russians are on the verge of authoritarian rule once again.

Russians just seem to love being under a tyrant's thumb. It gives them an excuse to be brutal. Can we look forward to 21st Century incarnations of Beria or Iron Feliks?

E_S

 

Ähm - I don't think Putin is SUCH a bad boy (also he can acct very hard against people who he think are his enemies). I don't believe he is a person like Jagoda, Jeschow, Berija or so...

By the way - may I remember, that it was not America alone (and I think it was not America at most) that stop my country when it try to conquer Europe? I think, the Red Army did much more for that, and this should not been forgetten. The losses of Germany on the Eastern Front were much higher then on all other fronts together - against American, French, Britain and so on...
So they did also a HUGE Part in rescue Europe from the nazis, I think. The Second Front came late in the war - on this point, the nazi-wehrmachts strength was broken at Stalingrad and Kursk, I think.

American wars were not only because the land was so nobel and want to help the world. They realize, that it was in her own interesst, to join the war (WWI) or to help the lands, who were under attac (WWII). Also in the Cold War, it was more "how can we support american interests", then thinking about, how poor would the people live if the Soviet Union win. And I am very sceptic that after Stalin there was a real danger of a soviet attac...

 

The Russian contribution to WW II is undeniable, and they suffered heavy losses with the German invasion. It is unfortunate you had to deal with a tyrant like Stalin as well who murdered millions.

However, we (America and NATO) stopped the Russians from conquering Europe as a whole and turning the entire European continent into Communist satellite states.

 

If this ever was planed, what is HIGHLY questionable (after Stalin I think noone of the chiefs in the Kreml really want a war). I mean, Stalin was a dictator, but he was not stupid - for example he would like a neutral Germany more then a divided and rearmed one (Remember the Stalin-Note and so). Russia was after WWII nervous because they fear a reborn of the old germany. And if I remember how the people from my land act in Russia, I can understand that.

 

You guys did suffer quite a lot under the Nazi invasion, but you also unfortunately suffered just as much under Communism.

It's quite unfortunate, as you Russians have suffered a great deal in modern history.

Stalin wasn't stupid, but he was a paranoid and murderous dictator.

I would like to visit Russia... I had a friend go there who said Moscow was a beautiful place and the people there were friendly.

 

Just take an extra thousand US Dollars to bribe *everyone* DM.

And I think Ardiff is German?

Anyways, DM is right about Stalin's ambitions. Stalinist Russia was far worse than Nazi germany in terms of executing people, and yes, VV Putin is that bad.

E_S

 

I personally think the USA and Israel are at the top position because of the way their governments handle international affairs. Both countries don't seem to listen to the objections of others Simply said, they're both pretty undiplomatic. But - hey, that's the way a "Texan cowboy" and an Israeli ex-general handle things.
Were the USA and Israel a lesser "threat" under Barak and Clinton? Not that much. Clinton had plans to invade Iraq, too, and there was no justification for the Kosovo war IMO, too. (Especially if one has read this week's news one would notice that a good part of the ugly stories used to justify that war were made up by the ethnic Albanians - whose KLA cooperated even with Bin Laden - to drag the NATO into the war and get their independence).

 

Hey E_S, if he is German, maybe he can send me a vintage MG-42.



I could do some damage with that.

muwahahah

 

A good point, SnorreSturluson.

I also mentioned on a previous post that the U.S and Israel CONTINUESLY disagree and vote against the rest of the United Nations on many international subjects.
Those of you who think that the U.S is no threat to the world and tries to do good, can you please answer if you find it LOGICAL that two countries are constantly right, as opposed to the votes of 150+ countries at the United Nations?
Please I need an answer to this!

 

"a threat for the world peace" is not the same thing as "a threat to the world".

USA began a "war", right or wrong, it's a threat for the world peace (the inverse of the state of war). It's right if we think that the war will bring a better world for the future, and it's wrong if we thing there are other methods. I think that's all about the poll.

As an european, if I have to answer this poll, I guess i will say USA too. Russia will be well ranked with this desastrous barbaric tchetchenic war, but it's much more confined to a restricted aera. For Israel, its actual politic (and not people who live here, at least not for the europeans) affect animosity in the arabic countries, it's a fact.

I don't see what is so scandalous about that ?

 

Yes I am german - has I ever said another thing? ?
I mean, I can understand the russians, if I remember what the people from germany (what is my country, either I like his history or not - and this chapter I highly dislike) do there. Because I study history, I know a little bit, perhaps a bit moore then some other germans (or more then they WANT to know...)
And no - I has no weapons (beside a air-gun)
And this will be still mine!
In your country you can more easy get weapons to make some damage, I think...

 

Hmm just concerning The US and Israel going against 'standard' opinion...

Isn't it the anti-social ones who are usually the smartest?

 

Wolf, considering the restrospective stupidity of certain policies, my answer is "no but nice try".

E_S