CT Events between TESB and ROTJ

Iron_lord wrote

Luke did make Jabba an offer - Jabba turned it down

Yes, but nobody knew beforehand that this was going to be the case. And according to your report the "rewriter" didn't even mention a negotiating option before considering an armed assault. And why then was Artoo equipped with Luke's lightsaber but not a transmitter to call in the cavalry.

The retcon (I think it qualifies as such) is apparently not thought through: Either and for reasons unknown to us they decided it's a private matter and/or dealing with a notorious gangster would have cast a bad light on the Alliance, or they would have gotten support from the Rebel Forces but didn't consider at least making use of it as a backup plan.

 

Lets face it people the Rebel Alliance was a bit stingy but they could not afford to divert time and resources saving Han when they had an Empire to beat and a Galactic Republic to Restore.

 

The exact wording:

Chapter Four: In Which A Plan Is Revealed.
Two droids against a castle full of evil thugs and a giant, even more evil space slug? You might ask: What foolishness is going on here?
Well, it is rather foolish, but it's not quite as bad as all that. It's actually the two droids, three people, and one Wookiee against the castle full of evil thugs and a giant, even more evil space slug. (To be truthful, there's also a monster in the basement, but more on that later.)
But why do it this way? Why not swoop in with spaceships blasting, laser guns zapping, Wookiees bowcasting, proton torpedoes laying waste to everything in sight?
No, no, no! Remember this is a rescue mission.
The problem for Solo's friends was how to get him out of Jabba's lair alive.
With the aid of the rebel fleet, they could have blown the place to bits ... but that would have destroyed Han Solo as well. Carbonite is tough, but not that tough.
The Rebellion's ground troops could have attacked - but against Jabba's defenses and weapons stockpiles, it would have been a bloody battle, if not a small war.
Besides, the Rebellion's army and fleet are desperately needed for the endless battle against the evil Empire, which even now is plotting to crush the Rebellion* and bring a terrible new order to the galaxy.

*It's a very good plot to crush the Rebellion, I'm sorry to say. More on this later...

No ... though Han Solo had risked his life for the Rebellion, the Rebellion could not risk its life for him.

So it was up to his closest friends:
the loyal and hairy Chewbacca,
the not-always-so-loyal Lando Calrissian,
the farm boy turned star pilot Luke Skywalker,
and the rebel princess Leia Organa
to come up with a better plan.

A very risky, very dangerous, very easy-to-go-wrong, very unlikely-to-work sort of plan.
The sort of plan that was so unlikely to work, in fact, that C-3PO would never have agreed to be part of it.
So he wasn't told.
And now, as the door slams shut behind him, it's too late to turn back.

 

Shadows of the Empire should be retconned out if it hasn't because it's bad and very poorly written. It's like reading a book written for elementary school kids

 

The newcanon book Moving Target covers what Leia was doing shortly before ROTJ - and there's no Shadows of the Empire references.

Personally I thought the older book had a few funny moments (Luke making his lightsaber, Luke and Leia tasting Lando's stew, Dash Rendar dealing with an overly literal droid, and so on.)

The comic as well.

The follow-up (focused on Guri) is also a pretty enjoyable comic.

 

Satele, do you follow Blue Milk Special? Here's one of my favorite moments:



Those googly eyes kill me every time!

 

It's why I don't look to novelizations, interviews with Lucas or others or new or old EU for information or answers to questions such as this. One, tons of contradictions. Two, I find it more rewarding to analyze what the films are presenting and explore that for connections and find support for positions from the actual movie, not in some appeal to an outside "authority" or non-film source.

(Don't get me wrong, I enjoy plenty of Star Wars novels of all stripes, but I don't get caught up in "no, this is canon")

 

^^^ THIS

 

It could just as easily be months as several years. It's pretty self evident a fair amount of time has passed. Enough time for Lando to become employed in Jabba's palace. And enough time for Luke to search out the materials to make a lightsaber (from Obi-Wan's old place on Tatooine?).

The one thing that makes it feel like at least a year has passed is the change in Luke. He acts like a full fledged Jedi by the time he makes his entrance at Jabba's palace. His demeanour is calm, otherworldly - much like Obi-Wan's was.

 

It would appear my criticism still stands. Had Jabba declared war on the Alliance? Had the Alliance assembled a tribunal sentencing Jabba the Hutt to death? IMHO, those questions should have been addressed first, but the children book (!) author goes solely with that "shoot first" ideology.

The other quote is rather disappointing. The Rebellion was the cause that Solo didn't pay back his debts to Jabba in the first place and ended up frozen in carbonite. The Alliance I know would have done something on his behalf (what good is its cause if it doesn't return loyalty with loyalty?), but there were obviously other reasons why it did not which the author apparently fails to address.

My guess: The Alliance was ready and committed to free Han Solo, but Princess Leia and Luke probably felt that an attack on Jabba the Hutt would just open another battlefield against organized crime for which the Alliance was not sufficiently equipped, and therefore they took things into their own hands. And Luke's "We have powerful friends" was undeniably ambiguous, but we as the audience understood he meant the Alliance, so he had some backing but wanted to keep the Alliance out of it as much as possible.

 

the shadows of the empire book is what got me into reading EU novels and reading SW novels in general. before that, i'd seen the movies but that's all

 

It's called Star Wars, not Star Negotiations. And "Young Adult book author" might fit better in this case. They know their audience well. The audience of the kind of kid who's grown up playing shoot-em-up games, and thinks the only way to deal with a "baddie" is violence. So, first they raise the "Why not violence" objection - then they shoot it down and show 3PO and R2 going in to negotiate, instead.

I've seen that objection - that violence would have made more sense when dealing with a ruthless crime lord like Jabba - raised numerous times on these very forums.

That's pretty close to what the book actually says:

The Rebellion's ground troops could have attacked - but against Jabba's defenses and weapons stockpiles, it would have been a bloody battle, if not a small war.
Besides, the Rebellion's army and fleet are desperately needed for the endless battle against the evil Empire, which even now is plotting to crush the Rebellion* and bring a terrible new order to the galaxy.

What it doesn't say is whether it was Leia & Luke, or Mon Mothma, that made the decision not to commit military forces - because we don't need to know that. All we need to know this early, is that those military forces will not be involved.

These were smuggled goods. "Legally owed" doesn't really come into it.

 

We have to remember there was a breakthrough in Return of the Jedi. The Rebels had gained valuable allies and they did not want to jeopardise it by breaking out a wanted criminal from a Crime's Lord's dungeon simple for the love of the Princess.

 

Bob the X-Winger

"Wanted criminal" ?!?

After all Solo had done for the Alliance (including postponing settling his debt with Jabba the Hutt) I'm certain they would have assisted, but it was probably Leia who felt that the Alliance should not be drawn into this and persuaded everyone else that her, Luke, Lando, Chewie and the droids should mount a rescue operation (under the pretense of wanting to find a mutual agreement - you knew I was going to add that?).

 

The Moving Target novel has Leia and Mon Mothma strike an agreement - if this decoy mission does its job, they'll give her time off for the Han-rescuing operation.

It wouldn't be the first time in the newcanon EU that the Rebellion didn't launch a rescue when it might be called for - the same issue crops up in the new Star Wars comics: Star Wars: Book 2: Showdown on the Smuggler's Moon. Luke is captured by a Hutt on Nar Shaddaa - Mon Mothma vetos a full-scale rescue operation, and Chewie & C-3PO are sent in instead.

 

Han & Chewie are fugitives along with Luke and Leia. That's why any attempt to go down the route of freeing captives is not what the Rebellion is about. Even Princess Leia was expendable in a New Hope so while a rescue is obviously desirable it is not attainable. Jabba's Palace is way too fortified. They must have approved of Leia's mission nothing else was possible. The Alliance was concentrating on building up an Armada that could take on the might of the Imperial Star fleets.

 

Bob the X-Winger wrote

That's why any attempt to go down the route of freeing captives is not what the Rebellion is about. Even Princess Leia was expendable in a New Hope so while a rescue is obviously desirable it is not attainable.

Since this is by no means certain (we lack information) I prefer to continue believing that the Alliance cares about its personnel much more than the Galactic Empire. On the contrary, I'm confident that the Alliance ideology is along the lines "leave no man behind" and saving Private Ryan.

 

That's what they are doing by allowing Leia to rescue Han which was big call to make. She was temporarily enslaved by Jabba and had the plane failed the Alliance would be in big trouble.

 

The PT demonstrates that becoming a Jedi is about much more than "learning magic". Seriously, there's enough legitimate criticisms about the PT that there's really no need to make stuff up.

 

Plus he wears black like his father.

 

Plot device to reunite the gang all in one place

 

I wanted to ask something about the Second a Death Star.

They started construction on the first one on 19BBY and thy finish it on 1BBY maybe? But when do they started with the second one and why it was already functional? From 0ABY to 4ABY??

 

In the current canon, I do not think there is anything between TESB and ROTJ. I really hope the deleted scene with Luke building the lightsaber is not canon. It would be ridiculous if he never used a lightsaber for a year and then was much better at it. Yes, Luke is already a very fast learner, but still.

 

so they can sell us the 'canonical' version.

 

I just hope the new canonical version is better than the old one. It can't be much worse, IMO.