Everthing Matrix!! (Reloaded/Revolutions Spoilers!)

I'm ready to get the collection for Christmas. Something I've been looking forward to for some time. And yes I do have some hope in Revolutions even though i've never seen it before. Only watched 1 and 2.

 

Hey guys. I have a question. In the third film, where was the little girl and her family going? Were they going to the Matrix, or to the real world?

 

The parents couldn't go to the real world...as they are programs. Sati was going to The Oracle (because she was a program that "didn't have a purpose," and every program that doesn't have a purpose is "deleted." The Merovingian spared her life). This is completely spelled-out with the dialogue in this scene.

 

i was wondering, did Smith assimilate the whole matrix? i mean what were the merovingian and the architect doing by then?

 

Leonard_Shelby, I don't think that's it. The Oracle did have a purpose, unbalancing the equation that The Architect set up. The Merovingian found out about the Oracle's purpose, and made a deal with her. Help humanity and you'll be deleted, or give up the eyes of the Oracle and you'll be spared. At least that's what I think that situation was about.

The set...is something I will not buy. I've no reason to, seeing that I own The Matrix Revisted, The Matrix Reloaded, The Animatrix, Enter the Matrix, and The Matrix Revolutions.

 

I own the three movies already. I think the sequels are pretty weak too, so I think I'll skip this set.

Plus, I don't have the patience to sit through 35 HOURS of bonus material! I haven't even removed the second discs for Reloaded or Revolutions from their boxes!

 

The scenes I liked in "Reloaded" are the Neo/Smith fight scene and the car chase scene.

 

"Leonard_Shelby, I don't think that's it. The Oracle did have a purpose, unbalancing the equation that The Architect set up. The Merovingian found out about the Oracle's purpose, and made a deal with her. Help humanity and you'll be deleted, or give up the eyes of the Oracle and you'll be spared. At least that's what I think that situation was about."

I was referring to Sati being deleted...not the Oracle.

 

Do the brothers offer any commentary in the new boxset?

 

Nope. No interviews, either. Only written introductions to the movies.

 

Gees that's really lame. Should I pick it up the boxset if I have the trilogy?

 

What are the "eyes of the Oricle"?

!snap

 

The eyes of the Oracle are not really her eyes, but the ability to see the future.

The only two people that can see the future are the Oracle and the Architect. Both of them are part of the machine world, and responsible for the success of the Matrix as a program. The humans are slaves and even though they believe they have a choice at an unconscious level, the ones making the choices and decisions are the ones in charge - the machines.

Now since Neo is the one, he has or contains pieces of source code. That's why the Oracle told him in Reloaded that he has the sight to see the world without time, but he still can't see past the choices he doesn't understand. While the Architect doesn't understand any choices because he's a machine, the Oracle understands the choices to be made, but she can't control the humans in whatever decision they may reach on their own.

Wouldn't your choices in life be easier if you knew the consequences before making them? Sure. That's why Merv wants the "eyes of the Oracle." It is power, and he always wants more power.

But we all know that Smith copies himself onto the Oracle and then he has her "eyes", and knows that he is the one to beat Neo. But of course, he doesn't know that Neo is plugged into the machine mainframe, and meets his own demise.

Of course, this is what I gathered from watching the films. Someone else may disagree, agree, or see something totally different than my response. That's the beauty of this film - to come to your own conclusions.

 

I disagree about that being the beauty of the films. Coming to your own conclusions about a philosophical or thematic question a work presents is good. However, when you're "coming to your own conclusions" about critical plot points in the movie, then that just means that they didn't do a good job of making clear what the heck was happening.

 

I'm going to have to pick up the dvd box set, as it will hopefully shed some light on some of the slightly unclear plot elements.

oming to your own conclusions about a philosophical or thematic question a work presents is good. However, when you're "coming to your own conclusions" about critical plot points in the movie, then that just means that they didn't do a good job of making clear what the heck was happening.

I disagree. American film viewers are so used to being spoon-fed watered down dumbed down plot... this is a welcome change IMO.

!snap

 

Finally got the box set. The commentary is great.

These guys are really hard on Morpheus, reguarding how he is just part of the machine.

!snap

 

TiniTinyTony, in other words Smith CANNOT see past the choices he can't understand; he can't understand why Neo keeps fighting, which is why he cannot see his own demise. It ties together so perfectly.

 

You've almost got it, but not quite. Smith can't understand why Neo STOPPED fighting.Neo stopped fighting because he knew that Smith could only be destroyed by allowing him to destroy Neo because by doing so, Smith would no longer have a purpose.

 

The Matrix: Rebutted
Why Neo Wasn?t Necessary and Other Quirks

First, some background. As you might know if you check back a bit in this thread, I was one of those who liked the first movie in this series, but found myself increasingly and severely disenchanted by the sequels. In the months since, I have been able to let go of the expectations I had going in to the second film, to forget (and forgive) some of the content, and separate the actual film from any particular displeasures I might?ve had with my actual viewing experience. In short, I?ve been afforded a chance to take a more objective look at the films for what they are. When they re-aired on HBO after several months? absence (it was the first time I?d seen them since they were released), I did exactly that, and admittedly liked them a bit better than the first time through. But that?s not all I came away with?read on and see.

1. Borrowing Tactics from FNC?

At the end of Reloaded, they?d unleashed a huge twist. It seemed that our heroes had no way out. The real surprise, though, is that the Wachowski?s didn?t bother to give them one. Literally. They just tried to discredit the person that had stated the dilemma in the first place. I?m referring to the Oracle?s comment to Neo that, the Architect, ?can?t see beyond any choice.? In other words, she was saying that what the Architect said would be the consequences of Neo?s choices weren?t the consequences at all.

In my view, this cheapens the whole twist, until it?s not really a twist anymore. It?s just a bad attempt at lying. What was the point of introducing this if you?re just going to write it off less than thirty minutes into the very next installment?

2. Turn Off the Matrix

Speaking of the surprising lack of repercussions of the Architect?s speech, let?s turn to another important point. Remember that the whole dilemma centered around the Architect?s ability to reject Neo?s bluff that he could let the Matrix be destroyed by Neo?s continuing presence there. Fundamentally, because there were ?levels of existence we?re [they?re] willing to accept,? the machines could afford to see the Matrix destroyed. So when Smith goes out of control, why couldn?t they just turn off the Matrix, which was there solution to six repetitions of other parts of the Matrix going out of control?

3. Smith?s Motives

Don?t make any sense. In the first two movies, we learned he hated humanity, and more specifically Neo. But that doesn?t at all explain what happens in the final movie. He begins spouting stuff about ?the purpose of life is to end,? and people say that he ?wants to destroy everything.? But there was no logical progression between these two points. Nor does the position even make any sense.

He, first off, goes about replicating himself, which, as a form of reproduction, is the exact opposite of ?destroying everything.? More to the point, despite several chances, he never just destroys things indiscriminately. Further, how does hating humans give him a motive to take over the machine world? In an even more direct contradiction, he calls principles of higher thought human, despite exhibiting some himself, and despite other programs having attested to the fact that they do in fact exhibit and express these same sentiments.

So what exactly was Smith?s motivation?

4. Trinity?s threat to the Merovingian

She points a gun at a program?s head, and threatens to kill him if he doesn?t free Neo. But based on what we?ve seen of agents and the Oracle, you can?t kill a program that way. So how was this threat valid?

5. What Did Neo Really Do

I?m actually more confused on this point. As we all no, Neo willingly surrendered to Smith in the end, sacrificing his life so that Smith could be defeated. But what actually happened here? From the film, it seems that whatever destroyed Smith came from the machines, and was only channeled through Neo. If this is the case, then why couldn?t they have done this with any of the billions of humans jacked in thr

 

I?m actually more confused on this point. As we all no, Neo willingly surrendered to Smith in the end, sacrificing his life so that Smith could be defeated. But what actually happened here? From the film, it seems that whatever destroyed Smith came from the machines, and was only channeled through Neo. If this is the case, then why couldn?t they have done this with any of the billions of humans jacked in through the Matrix?

This is how I interpreted it. The Oracle said a program can only be destroyed if it returns to the source. Neo was at the source when Smith took him over. Smith became Neo, hence the machines could delete him.

Can't really say too much about everything else. But good points all around.

 

I just finished watching "Marix Revolutions" for the first time (having already seen the other two) and have two questions - if these have been covered before in this thread, I apologize in advance -I haven't read all the posts:

* At the very end of Revolutions, we see a figure lying in the rain in the middle of the concrete pit where Neo and Smith had their final battle. The figure isn't Neo, however, but looks like the Oracle. Of course, it was very dark so it was hard to see, but it looked like a female figure - so, who was this? And, if it was the Oracle, why was she apparently dead if you saw her a couple of scenes later in the sunlit park talking to that old man?

* If it's true that Neo did die at the end of the film saving everyone, why does the Oracle say that she suspects they will see him again in the park at the end of the film (in response to Sati's question)? I guess it's true that he could come back to life at some point since they're in the Matrix and almost anything is possible, but it still seems somewhat unusual....

 

* At the very end of Revolutions, we see a figure lying in the rain in the middle of the concrete pit where Neo and Smith had their final battle. The figure isn't Neo, however, but looks like the Oracle. Of course, it was very dark so it was hard to see, but it looked like a female figure - so, who was this? And, if it was the Oracle, why was she apparently dead if you saw her a couple of scenes later in the sunlit park talking to that old man?

Yes, its the Oracle. And she never actually died, she was just repressed by the Smith program.

* If it's true that Neo did die at the end of the film saving everyone, why does the Oracle say that she suspects they will see him again in the park at the end of the film (in response to Sati's question)? I guess it's true that he could come back to life at some point since they're in the Matrix and almost anything is possible, but it still seems somewhat unusual....

I don't really have an answer for this, but I've always suspected that in seperating his mind from his body without jacking in, Neo somehow became part of the Matrix. I don't really have any proof of that though.

This is how I interpreted it. The Oracle said a program can only be destroyed if it returns to the source. Neo was at the source when Smith took him over. Smith became Neo, hence the machines could delete him.

Can't really say too much about everything else. But good points all around.

That's kind of an interesting viewpoint. I always though of it as being that Smith's purpose was to destroy the One and he did that, therefore Smith fulfilled his purpose, was longer needed and could be deleted.

 

Knock, Knock

Thank the Force! I've been looking for this thread for such a long time...

If it's true that Neo did die at the end of the film saving everyone, why does the Oracle say that she suspects they will see him again in the park at the end of the film?
This question should be answered in The Matrix Online (MMORG). It was released this month in the USA and it come out in Europe in April 8th. The Brothers say that the story will continue...

About the Oracle's eyes thing: in ETM (enter the matrix) you go to The Chateau's dungeon and you can hear Merovingian's prisioners complaining because he ripped off their eyes... Besides, in The Matrix, the old man who's guarding the Oracle is blind... And in addiction, every red pills use sunglases (to protect their eyes, somehow? Or just because it's cool?)
I don't know what this means, but I hope to find out.

 

* If it's true that Neo did die at the end of the film saving everyone, why does the Oracle say that she suspects they will see him again in the park at the end of the film (in response to Sati's question)? I guess it's true that he could come back to life at some point since they're in the Matrix and almost anything is possible, but it still seems somewhat unusual....
I was thinking it ment he might be reborn, just like the original One.

 

Just wanted to say that I loved the movies and the game ETM, espescially the hacking. Oh, and from what I got, Neo could come back in both worlds if he was ever needed again. He's sort of like an emblem of a Saviour.