Speculation Everybody and Yo Mama Wants to Be in Ep. VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by Lord Tyrannus, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    My knee-jerk reaction was no, but I can see the arguments now for a holo-projection or Force ghost appearance. That would be a handy way to get him back (and also as said, Ewan too).
    obi-rob-kenobi4 likes this.
  2. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    What do you mean anakin wouldnt accept the rebel's ways, but more benevolent than Palpatine? Would Anakin have used the death star to blow up countless planets in the galaxy? If not, he is a benevolent ruler. What rebel way would he not accept?

    Would Anakin go on trial for war crimes, kinda like nuremberg?
  3. Darth Stream Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    I hope not - Anakin story is done and leave it.
  4. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In Episode 2 he told Padme he agreed with a gov't that was more strict and less democratic than what the Rebellion would probably like. He would keep the Empire but not be as bad as Palpatine. Palpatine oppressed everyone. I think Anakin would have gotten rid of the slavery and not killed people for making mistakes if he was put in charge of the Empire post-ROTJ. He didn't believe in the Death Star as was pointed out in my thread wondering the same thing. Maybe Anakin would let the Imperial worlds decide who wants to go where and accept that. The worlds that stay would be more strictly controlled than the Rebel worlds. He probably would but he is in charge of the Empire. He could alert the Rebels to the Emperor's Hands, Grand Admirals etc. So they will keep him alive.
  5. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Anakin was the good side of him and Vader was the bad side of him so I consider him to be two different people.
    At the time of ROTJ Bail, Owen and Beru were dead. So only Luke, Leia and Palpatine knew the truth.
    If Luke and Leia were found by Vader then there would be no chance to end the Empire.
    I don't know what Anakin's plan was to rule the Empire with Padme in ROTS. He seemed to me to be more of I'll wing it and see what happens type of guy. I think they would be equal but not sure.
    Vader I believe wanted Luke and himself to be equals I think.
    If Vader wasn't sorry he wouldn't wouldn't have turned back to the light and become Anakin Skywalker or become a Force Ghost. I don't see how Vader could become Anakin again unless he was sorry.
    Vader probably would have turned himself over to War Crime Trials but Luke would have stuck up for him and Mon Mothma might have decided to let him live since he sorry and willing to work with the Rebels. They would have better results working with Vader than other Imperial leaders.
    I can't really comment on Stalin since I don't really know much about him but I think if he sacrificed himself to save his wife and renounced the Soviets it would be redemption.
    Maybe Luke was too forgiving? I don't know since I've not been in a situation like that but Luke had a chance to have a father figure and since he wanted one I think he would do anything for him, even accept him for what he's done.
  6. SithLordDarthRichie London CR

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2003
    star 8
    If Vader had admitted who he was, given his service record as a Jedi Hero he might have simply been imprisoned. But the atrocities he comitted & was a part of might be too great to ever really redeem himself.

    That being said, in TFU 2 when Vader is captured General Kota says they will execute him in public to send a message to the Empire.
    Last edited by SithLordDarthRichie, Nov 6, 2012
  7. -polymath- SFF:F/TV Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2007
    star 4
    I could see Hayden having a role in Episode VII. Same with Sam Jackson, Ewan, and all of the prior actors. They can reprise their roles in various ways. I honestly think we have to consider everything on the table with Episode VII. EVERYTHING. ;)
  8. -polymath- SFF:F/TV Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2007
    star 4
    Except for nudity. I don't think that'll be a part of the GFFA.
  9. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4

    Yeah. Owen and beru were not only dead, not since they were not Force sensitives, they could not have eternal life and communicate with the living/watch over the world like yoda and obi wan did, unless there is another way they survive after death in some kinda force afterlife. I'm not sure why you think Bail Organa and leia's adopted mother was dead. Alderaan was destroyed by the death star in A New Hope, and everyone who was on it obviously died, but how do you know that leia's parents were on it? That just seems like speculation. Maybe they werent on it and lived. George Lucas didnt confirm whether or not they lived or died, or were on alderaan when it was destroyed Where did the movies mention their names, bail or breha? Fans always call them that, but I watched Revenge of the Sith a few weeks ago and don't remember their names ever being mentioned.

    Palpatine, luke, leia, anakin, were not the only ones to know that Luke and leia were anakin/vader's children. Obi wan and yoda also knew..

    Vader was anakin's sith title, evil title, and when he doesn't have a sith identity, he's no longer Vader. I noticed something interesting about that, and I'm curious if you did too. When "darth vader" picks up emperor palpatine and throws him down the death star core, Wookipedia said something along the lines of, "anakin threw the emperor", not Vader. In pop culture, when most people think of Vader, they think of the guy with the samurai helmet/mask, james earl jones voice, cyborg breathing, and long black cape. When most people think of Anakin Skywalker, they think of the guy in the prequels, hayden christensen, a Sith lord who becomes darth vader after being burned.

    However, that is a misconception that Vader is the helmet and suit, and without that, he is Anakin. The truth is, Anakin became Vader long before he got the famous robot suit, when he was still young and handsome, with the long hair. Even then he was still technically Anakin, since it was his birth name, but he was also Darth Vader. Someone told me "after anakin gets burned in the lava he gets put into the darth vader suit". Wrong. He became Vader after mace windu died and was knighted by Sidious, not when he became a cyborg samurai.

    And, when Vader killed the Emperor, he was no longer Vader, but Anakin. He had the same alter ego as the kid Anakin from Episode 1, and the good guy teenage/20 yr old anakin in episode 2 and 3. He may look like Vader with the iconic samurai/german helmet on, but when Anakin threw the Emperor, he was no longer a Sith. Even before he takes off the mask, and asks Luke to take it off (James earl jones voice), that is anakin. So James earl jones played anakin.

    I like the concept that the robot suit and the name Vader are not synomomous, and that concept is part of the story. Did U notice that?

    Anakin and Vader are the same person, like Peter parker and spiderman, or tony stark and iron man. They are not different people. Vader is not some demonic being possessing Anakin, like phoenix and jean grey. Vader and Anakin are the same person. I disagree with what you said about them being different people. That's like saying that obama is a different person than the President when he was a teenager.

    I disagree about Vader and Luke being equals. Emperor Vader and Emperor Luke sounds kinda cool, but it doesn't make sense. Vader was a Sith. A sith has a sith apprentice. Like Palpatine and Anakin. So, i think Luke would be his 2nd in command. Agree? Why do you think they would be equals?
  10. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    I agree. Eww.[face_shame_on_you]:confused:[face_shame_on_you][face_praying][face_praying][face_praying]8-} That would be disgusting. Especially with certain characters.....
    JainaSoloYJK likes this.
  11. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    When Luke told Leia Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail, Owen and Beru were dead. The only people alive that know Vader's identity are Vader, Palpatine, Luke and Leia.
    Well if Bail and Breha were alive after all these years don't you think they would have come back by now?
    Check Wookiepedia for info on Bail and Breha.
    When Vader threw Palpatine down the reactor shaft he became Anakin Skywalker again.
    Anakin was the good part of him and Vader was the bad part of him.
    It's a bit murky since Anakin killed those Tusken Raiders in Episode 2. He lost a part of himself and wouldn't get it back for another 26 years. We know that was the first point in the movies that started his slide to the Dark side.
    Anakin Skywalker was good but let the Darkness consume him. Anakin and Vader are two different people in my mind. I guess we might just have to disagree on this point.
    When I think of Vader I think of the Tusken Scene in AOTC, Dooku's murder in ROTS, Mace's death, Order 66, the rest of the movie, Episodes 4,5,6 up to the end of his duel with Luke and Luke getting fried with lightning from the Emperor.
    For Anakin I think of him in Episode 1, Episode 2 minus the Tusken Raiders, beginning of Episode minus Dooku up to the fight between Mace and Palpatine, and the moment when he throws Palpatine down the shaft.
    The suit does not make him Vader. He became Vader before the suit. Whenever he did a dark action he became Vader. Power corrupts. If you read the ROTS novelization there is a part of Anakin called 'the Dragon.' That Dragon corrupts Anakin into becoming something he is not. The novel gives more insight into Anakin and the Dragon is one of them. Anakin and Vader do different things to achieve their goals. So they are different.
    Vader thought he lost his child in ROTS and had a chance to get him back in ESB. He would have agreed to be equals to get Luke to join him.
  12. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4

    I disagree. If Hitler had a son and sacrificed himself to protect his son, that would do nothing to change the fact that he was not only an evil dictator, but he never had a change of heart or regret or repentance towards the end....

    When Anakin killed the Tusken Raiders, was he Vader then? I had a theory that when he did that, he was using the darkside and letting the darkside chanell through him..

    We agree that the suit does not make him Vader.. Anakin is Darth Vader long before he gets the suit, and even when he wears the Samurai Kabuto helmet when he threws Palps, he's no longer Vader...

    Why do you think that Vader thought that Padme had a miscarriage?

    I checked wookipedia, it said that breha and bail died in Episode 4 from the death star, but that's just speculation. No one ever confirmed it. Maybe they were off of Alderann?

    Vader is just a title. When Sidious named anakin vader, or more accuratley, knighted him, it was just a ceremonial title. Some fans had a theory that the name Vader is a name that the darkside itself, a sentinent entity, gave Anakin, or Vader was like dark phoenix in X men, an entity closely linked to Anakin but possessing him. Ever read the Dark Phoenix X men jean grey comics? Is that like Anakin and Vader? Am I overthinking it?
  13. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Anakin began his journey towards the Dark Side by killing the Tusken Raiders.
    Palpatine himself told Vader Padme died. Vader might have felt her live but he thought she and his kid were gone. Vader didn't know until ESB that a kid was still alive.
    Like I said, if they haven't shown up by now, then where are they? If I was separated from someone like this situation, I would fight like heck to get back to that person.
    Anakin was the good part of him. The Vader part was the evil part of him. There is no comparison between the two. To become Vader Anakin lost a part of himself and committed acts that no sane person would do. Vader fought to keep the Anakin part of him down and not allow it to surface. Read the ROTS novelization. Anakin and Vader are shown to be two different people.
  14. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Are you saying that a person with multiple personality disorder has three different persons living inside of them?

    The answer to that is no. They may have 3 different alter egos

    Anakin was his birth name his mother gave him, presumably....

    Vader was a title the Emperor gave him, like a knighting title....

    According to your logic, Barack is the guy who lived in Illonois, President Obama is the President, 2 different people.

    Are you saying that Vader and Anakin are 2 different entities linked to each other, like Dark Phoenix and Jean grey? Or do u mean metaphorically...

    Names are just something society uses to identify people, and names are also legal names too..
  15. Jair Crawford Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    While that's true. There's a little bit more to it than just that. Vader himself didn't think of himself as Anakin Skywalker anymore even though it was his name, until Luke helped him, that is.

    "That name no longer has any meaning for me!"

    Pretty powerful reaction. He probably hadn't been addressed as such since he joined the Empire.
  16. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Anakin might have very well been cuckoo for all I know.
    Everyone has both light and dark inside them. What matters is the part we choose to act on.
    Anakin fell to the Dark Side by choosing the Dark inside him. When he fell to the Dark Side the part that was Anakin Skywalker (good) was almost destroyed completely. He referred to himself as Darth Vader and that other weaker person as Anakin. He tried to suppress Anakin forever. He considers himself two different people. Read the ROTS novelization to get more ideas.
    Barack Obama is a person who accepted a title but didn't go through a horrible mental and emotional transformation to become President.
    Anakin gave into his Darkness and became someone else entirely. He might have had Anakin's body but referred to himself as Darth Vader.
  17. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Luke's very existence is the reason Anakin was seduced and turned.....
  18. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    Ok, for the sake of Arguement, suppose that Obama went through an emotional and mental transformation to become President. He would still be the same person...
  19. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    So Anakin had mulitple personality disorder? I thought it was borderline....
  20. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4

    So you're saying that a person with multiple personalities is 2 differnet people? Is it like that for Vader/Anakin?
  21. Jair Crawford Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    He didn't have MPD. lol He just didn't call himself Anakin anymore. Those were his Jedi days, before he lost everything. He wanted to forget those days, hence his reaction to Luke calling him by his real name being so strong. That name was haunting him, and Luke knew that. There was a conflict in him.
  22. Lord Tyrannus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2012
    star 4
    So, it was nothing more than an alter ego, like dr jekkyl and my hyde. Or, was darth vader a cosmic entity that possessed anakin and was closely linked to him, like jean grey and phoenix? I still dont get it...
  23. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Sad, but true.
  24. Jair Crawford Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 1
    Vader just couldn't call himself Anakin any more. It would be too painful. If you had lost everything, including your wife, and until he knew Luke was alive, your kids, turned against everyone you knew except the Sith Lord, only to have your wife die anyway, and then not be powerful enough to fix it, and then, you're already being manipulated by the moral toxicity of the Dark Side, would you want to think of your past?

    His name was what he was called as a Jedi. He wanted nothing to do with it for a really long time. He had to harden himself away from that past to cope with the grief. Its not MPD or anything like that, but he simply had to tell himself "No, no, thats not me any more. I am Darth Vader now and always will be" in order to deal with the pain of his past. It took his son almost dying to snap him out of that.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Vader and Anakin are in the same body.
    Anakin and Vader are in control at different parts of Anakin's life.
    The Anakin part is good.
    The Vader part is the evil twisted part of him and refers to Anakin as weak.
    Anakin was the Jedi hero.
    Vader was the Dark Lord of the Sith.
    The only similarities between the two are that they reside in Anakin's body and that they can both use the force.
    I cannot call Anakin and Vader the same person. They are two vastly different identities.
    Barack Obama is still Barack Obama even though he is president.
    If Obama went through a terrible mental and emotional crisis we would have to call him whatever Side won. If Obama won, he would still be Obama. If the Darkness won we would have to call Obama whatever the darkness wanted since he was in charge and wouldn't want any memory of Barack.
    Darth Vader is more than a title. It is the Darkness inside Anakin Skywalker that rose up and overthrew Anakin.
    Vader referred to Anakin as a different person.
    Anakin was not in control of his body anymore. He was banished to the furtherest depths of his mind.
    I don't know the medical lingo for what constitutes Multiple Personality Disorder and what doesn't but while Anakin and Vader are in the same body, they are different people. Vader refers to Anakin as someone else so I call them two different people.

    Luke didn't know that yet....