Everybody who's read "Dark Journey" disscus it here! (Spoilers)

Seems to me that all he's done is go back to being the same wishy-washy philosopher that we saw at the beginning of VP.

I wouldn't go that far Crow, but I agree that his seeming inactivity is rather frustrating at times. The only true thing I've ever felt Kyp Durron has said (up until DJ), was during the Jedi meeting in Conquest, and he said something to the effect of:

"Would Jacen use the Force to save an innocent being to whom he is not related? Clearly the answer is no, since he had the chance on Duro and passed it up, using it only to save his mother, and only then after she'd been tortured nearly to death."

That really bothers me about Jacen's character. I admire the kid for his principles, but how long can you hang onto those principles when in the middle of a war? I think the other Jedi are realizing this, and resorting to tactics they would not normally use. But it's important to note that with the exception of a few, Alema and Jaina mainly, most of the Jedi are saddened by what they have been forced to become by the Vong. At least in SbS Jacen learned he can't judge other people for their beliefs.

JMA

 

To put it in perspective:

Vector Prime - 8
Onslaught - 6.5
Ruin - 3.5
Hero's Trial - 9
Jedi Eclipse - 7
Balance Point - 8.5
Recovery - 6
Conquest - 8
Rebirth - 7
Star by Star - 9.5
Dark Journey - 7.5/8

 

The way to retain your principles in war is to find a role that suits you. Jacen did that on Duro, aiding refugees.

The intellectuals of Station X were not invlved in combat, yet their code breaking of Nazi encryption had a huge effect on the war.

Jacen is suited to a similar role: That of rendering the Vong's force-blindness a non-advantage.

Regretabbly this has not yet happened. I still say Jacen is suited to an intelligence/analytic role in war. We have a precedent for this type of Jedi in Kenth Hamner who specialises in stregy and Cilghal who is an expert healer.

Jedi Ben

 

For any who hoped Kyp would get some credit in DJ for his acts, forget it. It is clear, despite Cunningham's efforts, Kyp is slated by the Powers That Be to be 'bad guy/jerk/villain'. He gets it from everyone, with the Sernpidal controversy being repeated until it becomes nauseous.


Apparently according to TFN's interview, Denning wanted to kill him off but they wouldn't let him.

Also, the scene where Han and Ben look at each other with identical expressions was priceless.

 

"The way to retain your principles in war is to find a role that suits you."

Well put, and I'm forced to agree with you.

Although I might add that another Jedi has already beaten Jacen to the punch; his younger brother rendered the Vong's Force-blindness ineffective, if only briefly. Perhaps Jacen will have time to reflect on how his brother did it and use Anakin's example to crack the code himself.

JMA

 

JMAaron, you couldn't be more right with regard to principles in peacetime vs. principles in wartime.

Jacen supposedly could be one of the most powerful of all the current Jedi. If the galaxy hadn't been invaded and he'd wanted to go off and live in a tree stump on Dagobah and contemplate the "True Meaning of the Force," I'd say good for him.

But when you've been invaded, and hundreds or thousands of planets are being conquered and their citizens killed or enslaved, how can you stand by and barely lift a finger to help?

If he doesn't want to be on the front lines, fine. But isn't NOT using the Force to help poor, defenseless people almost as bad as using it for evil?

Yes, he needs to find his role. If that's not as a warrior, fine, I think we could all accept that. But the Force isn't just a gift, it's a responsibility.

 

But isn't NOT using the Force to help poor, defenseless people almost as bad as using it for evil?

I completely agree with you here. I think Jacen has come to realize this, in all fairness to him, and I doubt we'll ever see him blatantly refuse to use the Force again.

JMA

 

The question that has yet to be answre, other than healing, is how does one use the Force in a non-martial way?

We are told Hamner is a Jedi strategist. How can that be? He must use the Force to be a Jedi strategist, in some way that has not been mentioned, or else what sets him apart from other strategy experts? What makes him a JEDI strategist?

That would be the kind of role for Jacen. To use the Force to do things others without it cannot, in a conceptual strategic sense even.

It cannot be that If you ave the Force you must use it to fight, surely the uses of the Force are much more diverse than that? even in the event of a horrendous invasion?

Jedi Ben

 

I enjoyed this book. I haven't 'enjoyed' an NJO book like i have the other previous starwars books and series yet really. And I agree with the title being Dark Journy. It might have been a little darker, but hasn't the entire NJO series been a 'dark journy'. This one was just about Jaina's dark journy and it served it's purpose. I applaud this book. It makes more sense than quite a bit of the rest of the series.

 

JB, I just read your last post again:

We are told Hamner is a Jedi strategist. How can that be? He must use the Force to be a Jedi strategist, in some way that has not been mentioned, or else what sets him apart from other strategy experts? What makes him a JEDI strategist?

You've probably read the books more times than I have, but here's what I thought they said about Hamner: that he was a high-ranking officer in the NR military who left to become a Jedi, and now serves as both an advisor to the NR Military's High Command and as a liaison between the Jedi and the armed forces.

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but that's how I remembered him described.

 

Perhaps you have it right and he's regarded as both a Jedi and Strategist.

I found the idea of a Jedi Strategist intriguing though, could such a Jedi exist?

There are Jedi Healers so could the Force encompass other roles?

I was more playing with the idea to fit Jacen into his right place.

Jedi Ben

 

Unlock and bump.

 

Thanks for the bump and unlock Havoc.


All right, I?ve read this and SbS over the last two, (Christmas Day and Boxing Day) days, (yeah, depressing reading for the time of year).

SbS was good and I won?t fault it or go into it too much here. So onto DJ.

The book is utter garbage, and the reasons are brutally simple. It?s over abbreviated, and shows so littlie of the character that it?s supposed to be dedicated to, (Jaina), that it fails at it?s primary aim, (showing Jaina?s decent into darkness and the start of her recovery).

It?s ok if unspectacular for the first half, (up until they land on Hapes). But from about the time of Anakin?s funereal onwards it?s just horrific. The problem is we have a couple of months of events squashed into 150 pages. The whole book is half the length of SbS and deals with events over a longer period of time and with greater overall effect, even if the limited character numbers keeps the complexity down.

The over abbreviation really shows itself when it comes to Jaina?s decent into darkness. Many events are eluded to, (The apparent torture of the pirate, sending happen pilots on suicide missions, and a number of alluded to nasty arguments between her and others, as well as one or two other bits and pieces that I?m sure have slipped my mind), but we never see anything beyond one or two arguments given any real detail. And much of the time these arguments are heavily abbreviated. On top of that we have the whole politics mess intruding in. It wouldn?t be so bad if it didn?t end up taking up so much time and doing nothing to further the whole darkness angle.

And there is another problem, for a book supposedly dedicated to Jaina Solo we actually looked at things from her PoV for less than 10% of the book. Most of the time we see things from other peoples PoV and only Tenel Ka and Kyp seem to see her as anything really dark or like she?s depicted from her own PoV, but they are lucky if they get 10% themselves. In reality maybe 1/3 of the book is dedicated to showing Jaina as truly Dark, another 1/3 is dedicated to Ta?a Chume and the whole political mess. And the last third seems split between YV, Han, Leia, Luke, Jag, and various bit part characters.

Not only do we get far too littlie time dedicated to her, but those bits we do aren?t normally from her PoV so all those deep inner vengeance filled thoughts are missing. You just can?t depict someone as truly dark until you write stuff that shows that level of darkness. We NEEDED to see that Pirate being experimented on. And more than that we needed to see Jaina watching this smiling faintly and pleased at the progress the experiment was making, and showing perverse pleasure and vindictiveness in watching a Yuzhan Vong collaborator get his just deserts. We also needed to see her nearly overcome at the end, when he is finally allowed respite and to live, to see Jaina fighting a burning desire to blast the life from him. We need to see her winning that struggle and not doing it, but only because she sees the pirate as a recourse too valuable to squander.

We can guess from Kyp?s dark tone when he alluded to this that this probably happened, but it needed spelling out in all its gruesome detail over 5 or 6 pages to be truly dark enough.

Likewise the whole suicide missions with the pilots. Despites Jaina?s claim I suspect the pilots didn?t actually realise they where on outright suicide missions. So some sequences showing that terrible realisation as the YV swarm them, of their rage and despair and all the other emotions that go through peoples minds in those situations.

And the final 30 pages where probably the most horrific reading I?ve ever had the displeasure of reading. Despite dealing with about a dozen different major events, it spanned just 30 or so pages. Jaina?s final section of her decent into darkness and subsequent recovery where especially bad, just 2 half pages for the whole thing. She goes on in the first half page about Jaina sinking deeper into darkness. But WHAT darkness, what are her thoughts and feel