Everybodys personal opinon:EU starting from scratch

Discussion in 'Literature' started by connermacleod, Aug 17, 2001.

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  1. RNolan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2000
    star 3
    I do recognize that Padme Bra. I am just stating that I (and a few others) hold the exact opposite view from Canonists. You can see why we (at least!) could hardly be pro restarting the EU...

    Yours
  2. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    I also vastly prefer the EU to the films.
  3. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Padme...
    "I just don't know why you can't even accept that a definitive EU would be prefereable."

    I can accept it, because we have exactly what you're calling for. It is called "Canon" and it now includes everything that is not Infinities. That's pretty dang definitive in my book. :D
  4. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Well first of all..all I remember is GL saying Anakin brings Balance by destroying Palpatine.I don't remember him saying it was because he destroyed the last of the Sith.

    Second the Dark Side sourcebook seems to indicate Balance was in place even though Palpatine was still alive.Good and evil were equal whereas before in the movies era the Empire had an iron grip on the galaxy.If Anakin had not killed Palpatine,him and Vader would've escaped the Death Star before Lando destroyed and would have regrouped the fleet and wiped out the weakened Rebel fleet.Then evil would have ruled forever.

    Vader killed Palpatine,the Empire collapsed ,evil lost it's hold,evil and good were equal.
  5. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    We don't really do that Bra. Most of us stick here. I only bring up an EU point in PSA if someone is ignorantly bashing it, or to correct someone's perceptions of it. Which is often, unfortunetly. I do the same in the TPM forums.

    One more thought...

    <<
    You won't have to wait that long. I'm sure you'll find some way to rationalize out all the inconsistencies that will arise, at the expense of Lucas' vision.
    >>

    Are you sure you don't mean your vision? If the EU was destroying Lucas' "vision", then he either doesn't care, or he doesn't mind.

    Also, although we do make continuity fixes, we have official help from Lucasfilm Licensing anyway. ::gives thumbs-up to Dan Wallace::

    Wait and see next spring, when we ALL read The Approaching Storm and the updated Essential Guide to Characters.
  6. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    What is "The Approaching Storm"?
  7. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    The prequel book that Allan Dean Foster's writing.
  8. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Alan Dean Foster's triumphant return to the SW universe. Something that even canonists will be interested in reading, mark my words. It takes place shortly before AotC. It'd be like reading Cloak of Deception before watching TPM.
  9. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yes, the once and future king of Star Wars novels will return.
  10. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2000
    star 6
    That tells me alot...Where can i find info on it?
  11. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Actually, Most sith are dark jedi, but not all dark jedi are sith. It's one of those Geometry theorem things. Were it can go one way, but not reversed.
  12. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    That is true. No matter what, Sith do have training in the Jedi arts as do Dark Jedi. While Dark Jedi are simply Jedi who fall to the dark side, the Sith have their own philosphies and traditions that a mere Dark Jedi would not have access to.
  13. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "mere Dark Jedi"

    Actually there is one thing that can put a flaw in your arguement, very small technicality actually.

    A sith master is the equivalent to a jedi master.

    so if a Jedi master becomes a dark jedi, he still Is of the oppisite of a sith master, and something still to fear, For he is a "dark JEDI MASTER". note dark jedi master's are quite rare. only one is known of that I can think of.
  14. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    I also only see the EU getting noticed more. :D

    I mean just look at the entry for Dark Jedi in the Dark Side source book.

    Dark Jedi:

    "Since the founding of the Jedi order thousands of years before the battle of Yavin,only a SMALL number of Jedi Knights have turned completely from the path of light ,to the path of Darkness.To the order,each Dark Jedi's tale is a tragic tale,filled with ambition,pasion,and mortal weakness.Although the Jedi do not lik to dwell on these failures every Jedi who takes on a padawan is expected to meditate on the lessons provided by the Dark Jedi Knights."

    hmm sounds like something I've heard in certain spy reports.. :D :p

    And also note that the Core RPG sourcebook says that not all Jedi who have left the order have been Dark Jedi.There's a differance between Fallen Jedi and Dark Jedi.Most Dark Jedi are fallen Jedi,but not all Fallen Jedi are Dark Jedi.

    Only those of you that follow spoilers knoiw what I'm getting at. :D

    And for those of you that do follow spoilers ,think about it.How many Jedi can you think of that have left the order?

    Kun,Ulic,that one Rogue Jedi from TPM novel......

    Padawans/apprentices don't count.They're not true Jedi.Even Yoda says this in RotJ.

    No..I doubt we have to concern ourselves with any major contradicxtions in Attack of the Clones.
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Technically, it depends on how far back one wishes to go. The Sith we know of, dating all the way back to 5,000 years prior to ANH are "Dark-Jedi/Sith-Species" hybrids. Therefore, every single Sith based on them (everyone we know of thus far, including Darth and Sidious) is actually part Dark Jedi and part Sith-philosophy.

    One would have to go all the way back prior to when the Jedi exiled the Dark Jedi during the great schism to find a "pure non-Dark-Jedi-tainted" Sith.
  16. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Talking bout dudes that started off as Jedi Knights or Masters and then crossed over to the Dark Side,or left the order...
  17. Grand Admiral Wettengel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 4
    Val,

    I really don't think that really has any major impact on my argument. Certainly, a Dark Jedi Master would be a forced to be reckoned with, but a Sith Master is still more than a Dark Jedi Master due to do a different philisophical outlook and introduction to Sith arts--alchemy for instance.

    Genghis,

    I totally agree with you.
  18. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "I really don't think that really has any major impact on my argument. Certainly, a Dark Jedi Master would be a forced to be reckoned with, but a Sith Master is still more than a Dark Jedi Master due to do a different philisophical outlook and introduction to Sith arts--alchemy for instance."

    Then you would be basing your arguement that Jedi are less than sith. Jedi have huge philsophical outlook as well, much that convert over when they become dark, just twisted version of lightside beliefs, such beliefs that Sith don't tend to touch. Also note that Jedi masters study Dark Side and sith teachings to know there enemy, so when they cross over all that knowledge comes with them and is useable. Not to mention Palpy let many of his dark jedi in on even more of his secrets.

    "different philisophical outlook and introduction to Sith arts--alchemy for instance."

    Also you notice, that sate pestidge was also well indoctrinated in sith alchemical arts, yet you'll deny he was a sith right?

    There are others that know these old arts like the Sith sect of Tund, but you'll deny they are sith as well?

    In the upcoming jedi outcast, we have knowledge that the dark jedi, is one who is messing with Alchemy, and dark side machine building, for all we know he's not a sith.

    He may not be a sith but he's using beliefs that come from sith, or ancient dark jedi teachings from before the great schism.
  19. Gandalf the Grey Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2000
    star 6
    But I don't like Alan Dean Foster...
  20. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    But Gandolf, I hear he's a really nice guy. What, did he accidently kill your pet gerbil or something?
  21. Jarik Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2000
    star 4
    No way. Don't start over. That would completely mess eevrything up. Everything that people think is contradiction is easily explained.
  22. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Genghis, much as I dislike it, it may be necessary to back away from the "everything not Infinities is 'canon'" statements:
    The latest word on canon & continuity from starwars.com

    Now, as to my OPINION about EU, here's what I would suggest:

    *Create an update to what is considered "official" continuity to date. This has already been done via The Essential Chronology

    *Have LFL work more closely with EU authors/editors to prevent further screw-ups in the timeline/storyline. This is also happening, as most EU is now Prequel-era, and it's pretty tight. See Jedi Council-Acts of War, the Darth Maul limited series, Cloak of Deception, and the Star Wars-Ongoing series from Dark Horse comics.

    *Moving forward, I'd suggest that Star Wars follows the example set by the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms series, namely to make certain characters the province of certain characters, like RA Salvatore and his Dark Elf & Cleric Quinticle series, or Mary Kirchoff and her Defenders of Magic trilogy. Make the "main" characters the SOLE province of ONE author, Timothy Zahn for example, or Alan Dean Foster for another. New authors would be more than welcome to write in AGFFA, but they'd have to create their own characters and/or couldn't use the "mains" in anything more than cameos, like the X-Wing series, or the Harper series in FR. This would prevent the "off" characterizations, "dropped" storylines, etc.

    *Have stories focusing on the "mains" be a major event (translation: hardback) that would once again, be the sole province of the writer authorized to feature the "mains".
    If LFL were to follow these suggestions, not only would there be NO NEED to "re-boot" EU, but it would also address the "quality issues" that some EU fans have expressed.

    My .02 worth :cool:
  23. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    JM...
    "Genghis, much as I dislike it, it may be necessary to back away from the "everything not Infinities is 'canon'" statements..."

    Yikes, now they're changing policy on a daily basis. :D Actually, none of what Steve says contradicts the upcoming policy change. And of course, I'm forced to note his statement will already be outdated. It has an August 17, 2001 date. When Star Wars Gamer #6 is published it will be dated October/November 2001. ;) So, actually, we're not really supposed to know about the "everything is Canon" yet. Some just got an advance warning. :D

    The one-author won't work. Because then we'll end up with strange situations. For example if one author wants his favorite character to marry Luke, he'll have her marry Luke. If someone besides Author XXX wants to use Luke's wife and isn't that characters' author, out of luck. That would make things very problematic. Instead of a couple of Mary Sue's GFFA-wide, we'll end up with one in every book.
  24. Spiderdevil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 4
    Well, I agree with most of what Padme Bra has said. Frightening, isn't it?

    I do disagree though with his statement that the EU is ruining George's vision. If he truly thought that then the EU wouldn't exist.

    However, I do agree that a reboot would, in many ways, work out a little better now that everything is mapped out as far as the PT and surrounding events are concerned. It's pretty much a moot point, but there's nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of such a change.

    And as for this EU=canon debate, I'm staying as far away from it as possible. Here's how I look at it. Films=definitive saga, end of story. EU=something fun to continue that saga for those interested, without impacting the saga itself for those who aren't interested.

    See how easy it is? We could end the whole EU debate if the bashers would say "Fine, just don't bring it in our film forums." The pro-EUers can then respond "Okay, as long as you will let us enjoy our expanded universe in peace."

    Basically, Don't start none, and you won't get none.
  25. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Look, on the bright side ghengis this is the proof that people like land and others totally screwed up the meaning of what infinnities means, and some of the old visions still exist:

    "There's been some confusion of late regarding the 'Infinities' symbol, and Star Wars Expanded Universe continuity in general. Terms like "canon" and "continuity" tend to get thrown around casually, which doesn't help at all."


    yep, that be Dave Land, Allan kausch, Ben Harper, kyle hunter, and others, all misinterpreting the meaning of infintities, and canon.

    "Returning to the question at hand. Yes, Star Wars Gamer is part of continuity, though as game material, there is room for interpretation. Only specific articles marked with the 'Infinities' logo within the magazine should be considered out of continuity."


    Hmm, this points to gamer 4, notice only lurdo comic got an individual icon on the article, so that means everything else is continuity. Thank above mentioned editors for making a big huge mistake yet again.

    Then comes the biggy:

    "In order to allow unlimited freedom of storytelling, the Infinities label has been placed on the anthology series, Star Wars Tales. This means that not only can the stories occur anywhere in the Star Wars timeline, but stories can happen outside continuity. Basically, if an event happens in Tales, it may not have necessarily happened in the rest of the expanded universe. For some stories, the distinction is largely inconsequential. For others, it's the only way they could exist (for example, there's a Darth Vader vs. Darth Maul comic coming soon)."


    Notice it harkens back to what Pete Janes said in tales issue 1, almost word for word. More proof that Land has totally mistaken views, from the start, and tales hasn't changed from what it was in the beginning some fit, some don't, "both within and beyond continuity".

    Can I jump up and down, right about now, and give above mentioned names an I told you so? :D

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