PT Everyone hates the Phantom Menace but...

Yeah, so a lot of ppl tend to think that the Phantom Menace is the worst prequel trilogy but is it really? Have you seen Attack of the Clones? I think ppl don't like it because it didn't live up to the hype, unlike the Force Awakens. Although, TPM has arguably, the coolest lightsaber duel of all time in the Star Wars saga. At least, I think so. Its hard to beat the Duel of the Fates at the end with Qui Gon and Obi Wan vs Darth Maul. The only that comes close to second is the Anakin vs Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith.

So what do you think of the Phantom Menace? I personally like it. The only downside is, of course, Jar Jar and Anakin's annoying commentary when he's piloting the Naboo starfighter when they're trying to knock out the droid control ship. Other than that, its definitely not the worst of the prequels

 

I love it.

 

TPM>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TFA

 

TPM>>>>>>>>>TFA..... I loved TPM. To be honest, having Lil Anikan made the story of Darth Vader much more tragic.

 

This was Lucas' main idea. Yes, I would make Anakin a little older, for example 12, with flashbacks of his childhood during the film, but anyway, the film worked as it is. Also we already discussed in another treads the strengths of the movie: Qui Gon, the mature political issues, the world of Naboo and of course, Shmi.
You know, when I first watched the movie, I didn't like the fact that in Tattoine (where happen some of the most important events in the movie) practically there were no human (except Anakin and his mother). But now I understand that in this absolutely inhuman rude world Shmi and Anakin could keep their humanity, their goodness. Astonishing contrast between the noble slaves and the despicable masters.

 

Hated Ani (the character and the casting not the actual kid), hated Jar Jar, loved Duel of the Fates.

TPM has some of the best and worst of Star Wars all in one movie IMO.

 

Flashbacks don't exist in SW

 

Yes, you are right. So, it could be chronological. Anyway, the things are what they are.

 

Personally, I find TPM to be the most brilliant Star Wars movie ever made, while simultaneously the most frustrating (AOTC is probably equal in terms of brilliance but I change my opinion on this regularly).

Everything in TPM serves as a prologue for the whole saga, not just the PT. this prologue isn't just in story and character introductions, but also thematic exposition.

First and undoubtedly foremost we have the wonderfully visual duality presented for us. From the outset we are introduced to two Jedi: one old and one young, one tall and one short, one master and one learner, one who is connected with the moment and the other whose senses are tied to the future. The Jedi are then thrust into battle and from the outset we see a vague Yin and Yang appear on a blast door as Qui Gon punches his light saber through to reach the villainous Nemodians.

From there we are further introduced to more duality. In the Stars above the planet there are robots who have a defined purpose and overarching control to them. They are cogs in a machine. These machines, or Ego, invade a planet ripe with green flora. On the planet below is a hidden city, below the waters of human knowledge (or consciousness). This is where Jar Jar is from. A city of the subconscious. Jar Jar himself is a representation of the Id as are the Gungans. They look like a distorted mirror image of the battle droids, and have an organic free flowing spirit.

The entire story is one in which we see a conflict between the controlling machine and the freeflowing life - a conflict that externally resembles the inner conflict Anakin endures during his journey throughout the saga.

The images of duality permeate the story and imagery. The announcer for the pod race has two heads. The pods themselves are two parts bonded together through energy dragging the passengers along on an exciting race. Where the Jedi are a master and an apprentice, so are the Sith. Where Qui Gon is allowing the force to guide him, the Sith Lord is manipulating events. The villainous Maul has a dual blades light saber. The list goes on and on and it probably isn't worth writing all of them, but the most important is the dual existence of our two most important characters.

Padme is a child Queen who volunteered for service. Anakin is a slave boy born in servitude. Padme lives in a palace. Anakin in a hut. Padme wants to return to free her people. Anakin wants to be freed, but escapes to freedom himself. Anakin has dreams of traveling the stars and going on adventures. Padme dreams for peace and pleads with the Senate.

From the outset we are given two characters with wholly different natures doing the same thing. Anakin races in circles for his freedom. His pod racer stalls at one point and must be fixed. Padme also races in circles, though her circle is galactic and her space ship stalls as well. They both ultimately end back where they started and win their freedom, but it comes at a heavy cost. Anakin loses his mother, Padme her devotion to peace.

The Phantom Menace is a story that is so well developed and so visually constructed that it confounds me why people don't like it.

With all of that said - yeah - the light saber fight at the end is bad ass.

 

Contrary to popular belief, most people do not hate The Phantom Menace.

 

Me as well . Though to be honest the story wasn't essential to the plot.

 

One of the greatest movies of all time.

Hence it being one of the most successful movies of all time.

 

How so?

They find Anakin who will one day become Darth Vader....

 

Pleased to see that there are fans who love The Phantom Menace.

Quite an antagonistic thread title though.

 

TPM

 

Duality does run in the movie -- far and wide.

Blood-red cockpits, decoy queens, racing rivals, big slug/little frogs, tubby gangsters/tribal chieftans, two council chambers, "naked" Threepio and "covered" Artoo, etc., etc.

Even planets have two introductions (Coruscant).

It is a very scintillating movie. So much stitching. So many subtleties.

With rhyming motifs constantly established and repeated.

And the general look, feel, and mood of the movie are fantastic.

A fabulous fantasy world. Extremely well-realized.

One of my favourite parts -- I have so many -- is the Coruscant passage.

I like how our heroes are frustrated there. Rebuffed. But then they break ranks and attempt to create a new reality for themselves (Qui-Gon/Padme), surprising onlookers (Obi-Wan/Palpatine).

Coruscant is clearly the TPM equivalent of ANH's Death Star. Not just the look of the planet (concentric circles -- more circle imagery), or the fact the heroes land there for a while, but that they come up against obstacles and leave with renewed purpose. There is also a slaying in each environment: Obi-Wan dies in ANH, allowing Luke and the others to break away, while Valorum's Chancellorship is brutally ended by the scheming of Palpatine and the Trade Federation (and Amidala's blindness), greasing the schemes of the Sith.

I like how TPM subverts so much of the architecture and lore of the OT. It's a bucolic fantasy with sinister undertones.

And there are also poignant messages for our own world. The importance of balance, symbiosis, a respect and a prayer for the interconnectedness of all things, and a recognition of the boons that come from working together, and a dire warning of the tragedy that swiftly installs itself on the face of everything that fails to integrate or refuses to.

In TPM, I think Lucas was sending out a truly global message for all mankind. The timing of the movie speaks to the message's vitality and urgency: the turn of the millennium. We need to do more in order to be more. The planet must come together as a single organism. We must unite in a common cause. We must find goals worthy of a technologically-advancing planetary civilization. The environments of the movie: Tatooine, too hot; Coruscant, too cold; Naboo, just right. Do we want the colonizing coldness of Coruscant, the desiccated desert of Tatooine, or a lush, habitable world, full of breathtaking beauty (inner and outer), on which we all can live?

TPM is an awesome fantasy movie. Because there's more reality in it than people nominally apprehend.

We all must grow and transform. We must move past rules and abstractions and rituals and become unified agents of the Living Force.

TPM is a paean for a better world.

 

God how I wish more people knew this

 

In other words we are Goldilocks and trying different porridges. One is too hot, one too cold and the other is just right.

Lucas is just so genius. Taking a child's story and making it an epic.

 

True but I feel that ROTS rushed his fall too much and really if they had an extra movie to develop that fall more his character would have been better. TPM is more focused on Obi Wan. To be honest sometimes I feel the PT should have been four movies. Well at least CW covered it.

 

What an articulate and informed perspective!

For the sake of discussion I'll counter, though you're certainly not wrong.

The end of TPM is, in my view, visual irony at its finest. The celebration is a sardonicism and the proclamation of peace a caustic mockery of the result of war. Yes, the Gungans and the people of Naboo prevailed on the battlefield, but like their Clone and Jedi counterparts, their decision to fight rather than wait for a patient diplomatic solution planted the seeds of tyranny. I'm not sure Lucas was calling on people to join, but rather painting a scorching portrait of the inevitable destination for those who fight...once you start down that dark path of aggression, forever will it control your destiny. And aggressive was Padme's move.

The worlds visited show us a peaceful Eden (Naboo) contrasted with a barren Hell (Tatooine) where children are slaves and are forced to risk death for others (our?) entertainment. Gunga City is our childish Id, an innocent and organic place resting below our conscious world full of aimless joy. Coruscant is our Ego, organized such that speeders fly in perfect order not unlike the hardwiring of a computer or the structured adult mind of structure and order.

Cryogenic, your views are enlightening. Thank you.

 

I have a feeling that will change in Episode 8.

 

This is a pivotal part of his genius, yes.

Well, I don't know about that, but thank you.

It's a sort of Pyrrhic victory portending doom. And "peace": the most diabolical word in the English language.

You'll see Boss Nass' dramatic raised-arm gesture repeated in the follow-up installments.

Obi-Wan hangs off that delivery droid (AOTC). Palpatine raises his arms as he ushers in the Empire (ROTS).

And look at the searing energy inside that globe (sphere). A paradoxical representation of peace?

And ROTS' crawl seems to answer: Peace? No. War!

This thread may interest you:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...ee-warning-image-heavy-slow-loading.50023053/

Oh, yes. Three discrete states of human consciousness (or four, as you rightly discern, if you add Otoh Gunga).

How brilliant is that?

Your analysis reminds me of Steven Galipeau's and Paul McDonald's meditations on TPM.

Well, again, I don't know, but thank you.

 

"Yeah, so a lot of ppl tend to think that the Phantom Menace is the worst prequel trilogy but is it really?"

what the actual eff?

 

People didnt like it at first because it was so different than the OT and what they expected, from what I assume. When I first saw it, yes it was a shock to see a lot of new things and how the story was being presented but I still loved it. I remember actually preferring TPM over all the OT films for a while after it was released

 

Just the idea that the movie ends with the villain winning big with no one (including, it seems, some in the audience) realizing it at first makes it far more complex and interesting than many of the movie's critics are willing to admit.