Senate Exemptions from vaccinations

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SuperWatto, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Look, I'm not expecting you to agree with me. I'm just stating the plain facts. Mom and I could very well have been exposed to the flu in the doctor's office, and the shot may have aggravated it, I don't know. The point is, I haven't gotten sick since then, and believe me, I've been around people with the flu several times.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Vaderize is a doctor, iirc. And he's dead-on about the vaccine not being actual flu.
  3. dp4m Chosen One

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    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Why does no one ever believe me on the banking threads... [face_sigh]
  4. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    The flu vaccine killed the Tsarevich, IIRC.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  5. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Fine, whatever. I still think the flu shot itself caused me to get sick and then Dad and Mom got sick.
  6. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    Ha, Ha, very funny:rolleyes:
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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  8. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Post hoc ergo prompter hoc then.

    Walker, I've had vaccine reactions. They're unpleasant, but better than the alternative. And don't tar all vacci es with the same brush.
  9. Skywalker8921 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2011
    star 4
    What do you mean by that? I was providing an example that I myself was part of to show why some people chose not to have certain vaccinations and why vaccinations should probably not be considerd mandatory. I never have the flu before I got the shot and haven't had it since that Christmas either, even with the new strains constantly showing. Does that not indicate anything? Sheesh! Is the possibility that the flu shot could actually make some people sick so far fetched that it's dismissed as false?
  10. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Ah, the last refuge of those who have nothing left to offer. This is part of the problem-- a trained, experienced medical professional gives you a concise overview of how the flu vaccine works and you simply refuse to accept it. You no doubt believe it's probably true for most people, but it can't be true for *you*. After all, your experience is different, and you yourself are different. Right? What our local medical doctor is talking about is for those "other" people out there (i.e. the rest of the population).

    It's either that or you accept what he said as the likely truth of the matter.
    Last edited by KnightWriter, Jul 20, 2013
  11. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Yes.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Jul 20, 2013
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9


    Honestly? No. One or a few people is a fluke. Show hundreds or thousands. And, yes it is. If the cdc isn't proof enough to you, here's more:

    http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/top-13-flu-myths

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/top-flu-myths/story?id=14972658

    http://coldflu.about.com/od/fluvaccinequestions/f/illafterflushot.htm

    Barring some kind of thoroughly ridiculous conspiracy to provide us all with free flu shots (nobody takes those seriously here either, in case you were wondering) the flu shot literally cannot make you sick.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Jul 20, 2013
  13. Katana_Geldar Force Ghost

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    Mar 3, 2003
    star 8
    Last edited by Katana_Geldar, Jul 20, 2013
  14. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    Aug 18, 2002
    star 6

    the correct response would have been a joke synthesizing ivan the terrible's mercury poisoning and paranoia about mercury in vaccines
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Jul 20, 2013
  15. DantheJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 5
    As an autistic person, can I still be offended by those who still think vaccines cause autism?

    (My child does not need to be vaccinated, said no third-world mother, ever)
  16. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Well, I think what's tripping up a lot of people is that it's not clear what the scope of your objection is. Do you think that there are any vaccines that should be mandatory? What about for deadly or crippling diseases like polio or (when it existed) smallpox? Should that have a different safety standard than something like the flu, which is more likely to be mild?

    What about based on situation or context? For instance, Vaderize works as a doctor. Do you agree with him that it's fair to make someone that works with sick people have extra precautions (read: vaccines)? Or should his right to decline still be most important, even though he might pass along an illness to an AIDS patient (or otherwise immunocompromised person) who is unable to handle it?

    Finally, is it simply your position that some vaccines aren't worth it, because you can avoid getting sick anyway? Or are you saying that some vaccines are actually dangerous?

    Move beyond the one story back to your general principles for vaccine usage.
    Katana_Geldar likes this.
  17. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

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    Apr 27, 2005
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    Absofrellinglutely.

    To back up Wocky and KW's points about not vaccinating. While it's certainly one's choice to vaccinate or not, as a CNA, I've seen the results first hand on what can happen when people pass along their illnesses to those who have compromised immune systems. It's not pretty, to say the least.
  18. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    So you're going to hold on to a belief that has no valid scientific basis whatsoever?

    @Rogue_Ten i don't understand your initial post. Surely it's more important to stem diseases than it is to quell a minority's fear?
  19. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Why don't you just try getting the shot more often and see whether you get sick more often or less? There's been a whole lot of deadly diseases that have afflicted humans throughout history, and they're all on the decline now or completely eradicated...and the the reason is vaccines.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "My child does not need to be vaccinated--said no third-world mother, ever."

    This pretty much sums it up. And I would add, "...said no mother born before 1940, ever. "

    Ask anyone born prior to that time about the polio scares. Concern about vaccine ingredients or vaccine reactions fits the textbook definition of a first-world problem.

    If someone is going to go to public school or work in certain public agencies, then yes, I absolutely think he or she should be required to get certain vaccines, with the only exceptions being a proven allergy to certain ingredients or another situation in which the vaccine would be medically dangerous.

    That said, as far as the vaccine schedule--I can't speak for every state, but the schedule here seems designed around infant well check-ups and I think five shots at a time is a bit of an overkill. My second child got all his vaccines, but I only did one shot at a time so I could monitor for reactions, of which he only had one, to the Hib vaccine. My first child was vaccinated on schedule and I noticed more fevers and soreness with him.
    Juliet316 likes this.
  21. malkieD2 Ex-Manager and RSA

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2002
    star 7
    Because you are a Banker, and they don't hold the same degree of credibility as a medical professional ;)
    That's a medical impossibility. Many people suffer from 'flu-like' symptoms after receiving a vaccination, and often mistake this for the virus itself. The 'flu-like' symptoms is your immune system doing it's job and generating appropriate antibodies to fight the real virus should you ever come in contact with it. This typically is a slightly higher temperature and fatigue.

    These symptoms are not infectious and cannot be spread to other individuals.

    What you are referring to is a co-incidence, which is why any true medical therapy has to undergo significant amount of testing to demonstrate that it is effective and safe before being released to the general public.


    Back on topic;

    It rather disturbs me that there continues to be a subsection of the public who still believe there is a link between vaccinations (namely MMR) and autism. There is a really aggressive movement which apparently has the backing of some (non-expert) celebrities in the US. After the the MMR link was debunked they seem to have moved onto 'autism-like' symptoms, then when that was also disproved (recently), I think they've moved onto other rare disorders. True, there is no evidence that vaccinations don't cause these rare disorders, but similarly there is zero evidence that they do (think teapot in space).

    I do at times question if certain decisions should be taken away from parents (vaccinations, blood transfusions, any other medical practice deems un-religious), but of course that goes against people's human rights. Saying that, we do already put fluoride in the water supply...........
    Last edited by malkieD2, Jul 21, 2013
  22. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Yep. Internal Medicine. I practice in a long-term acute-care hospital, which is basically an extended-stay ICU. Very medically complex patients, etc.

    Now that I've presented my resume, back to some facts :):

    1) The flu shot can make you feel ill, and as previously stated, that's simply the immune system reacting appropriately to the foreign protein it has been challenged with. However, that is not the flu, although some symptoms can overlap, also as stated. For example, if I don't take tylenol around-the-clock when I get my flu shot, I'll run a fever by the end of the day and feel fairly lousy. It's usually gone within 24-hours, and it definitely beats the flu, IMHO (although that may not be the same conclusion reached by everyone).

    2) As a condition of being employed by a hospital, most of them now require mandatory flu shots, unless there is a strong medical or religious objection; both are subject to a great deal of scrutiny, by the way. There was no debate at either my current job or my previous one; it's simply corporate policy. You get the shot, or provide a valid excuse that they find acceptable. If you disagree, then you're out. Until someone brings it to the Supreme Court, I doubt this is going to change. Patient care takes priority, and hospitalized patients are, as a whole, more susceptible to illnesses such as the flu than the healthy members of the general population at large.

    Peace,

    V-03
  23. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    You can't blame a major corporation taking straightforward steps like that to minimize their liability.
    Vaderize03 and Juliet316 like this.
  24. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

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    Especially if it's a hospital or other type of medical care facility.
    Vaderize03 likes this.
  25. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Of all the reasons I've heard for not getting a flu shot, "I might get the flu from the shot itself" has never been one of them, at least not when presented with any evidence beyond someone's best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who knows this kid who goes out with this girl who got the flu shot and immediately blew up like Dudley Dursley in Prisoner of Azkaban and started floating over New York or something.

    I've read concerns about the level of mercury in shots but I haven't seen any non-Jenny-McCarthy-type evidence that kids are getting autism from the mercury in flu shots either. And even that aside, many doctors' offices offer mercury-free injectable flu shots or the nasal vaccine.
    Vaderize03 and Juliet316 like this.