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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Expanded Universe Eugenics: starting to see a pattern here

Discussion in 'Literature' started by loontexas, Mar 2, 2002.

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  1. Jacen_Solo3

    Jacen_Solo3 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Then i propose this...don't worry about it. As you say the books are already planned for the most part, so there is nothing you, i, or anyone else can do...accept it, or stop reading. ITs kind of rude of me to say, but honestly...whats the commitee discussion going to accomplish other than Oh, i agree with you, or I don't agree with you. All thats oging to lead to is an argument...right? Enjoy star wars for what is was, is, and has become...
     
  2. LawgSkrak

    LawgSkrak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 1999
    Heil Hitler!
     
  3. Bubba

    Bubba Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2000
    Lawg: [face_plain]
     
  4. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    if you can only find 1 or 2 examples of an EU created character thats not white (ill add that everyone said 'black', as someone else mentioned, no one said native, asian or any other race'), then that doesnt really prove anything other than tokenism.

    Tokenism? As opposed to what...having a story have the full cast be black, Asian or Hispanic? That would appear to be just trying to satisfy a very small niche in the EU market. It would have to go to great lengths to have the story support the cast of characters for it to actually make sense on the kind of level that doesn't have white teenagers, let alone colored teenagers of different descent, scratching their heads.

    and just because most of the readers are white males doesnt really excuse it. most of the people in USA are white, yet you cant market everything only toward them simply because they are the largest market.

    Sure they can market it that way. But I don't think that the issue of race should decide what color a character's skin is in a story. I don't care about those things. I just enjoy the plot, and the characters, whether they're black or white.

    what i cant believe that none of the other fans see this as a problem that should even be addressed.

    See above. I think most people don't mind. And you know why? Because white people are the target market.

    It'd be the same thing if I complained that there's no white rappers ( er, white rappers that are good. ) Or I'd complain that there's no white people that I could hang out with at a big rap concert. It's not something I'd bother worrying about, because I know that there would likely never be ANY large amounts of white people at a rap concert. :D But if I enjoyed rap enough, I wouldn't care, and I would freely mingle with everyone there, no matter their color.

    This should be brought up with the writers, and asked is it purposely done or coincidental, and do they think they should change it or not.

    Write to Lucasfilm.
     
  5. loontexas

    loontexas Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2001

    how much are you willing to bet on that? Many of the rap concerts ive ever been to (that were large scale) were either mostly hispanic or mostly white (eminem, ruff riders tour) in their audiences. and all of the people i know (of multiple ethnicities) believe eminem is a damn good white rapper. and i live in texas.


    saying that if all the characters were black would appeal to one niche in the market is exactly what im saying. only change the word 'blac' with 'white'. never once did you even mention the thought of having multiple ethnicites in the books, which is what i was saying all along. it would be just as idiotic and biased to say all or 99.9% of the humans in the universe are black or asian as it is to say they are white, which is what current EU is doing (i say EU, because GL accually puts a WIDE range of human ethnic groups in the SW movies playing human characters).
     
  6. Elite_Guard

    Elite_Guard Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    he said rappers that dont suck... Eminem sucks...
     
  7. ash_shack_II

    ash_shack_II Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2001
    Okay, how about this:

    How do you know that the blonde hair/blue eyed characters are white? It's a whole different galaxy! So what makes you think some traits go with the same traits they go with here?

    And I can think of a bunch of "non-white" characters, like Belindi Kalenda (or whatever her name was). But we can't start naming them, because that would be "tokenism." But in the same breath that you complain about tokenism, you go on to list all the "caucasian" characters in the GFFA. [cough]double-standard[/cough]

    In the GFFA, there are no races. There is only the human species as a whole. There are dark-skinned humans, there are light-skinned humans, tall, short, etc.

    And come to think of it, most of the characters I can think of are short. Wedge, Corran, Luke, Janson, Anakin, Yoda ( :D )...
    And I can't think of any "Aryan" characters. Luke has blue eyes and dirty-blond (sometimes brown) hair, Anakin has blue eyes and brown hair, Tahiri has blond hair, but green eyes. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please)

    I think loontexas and others like him are specifically looking for things to make them mad. They make up these problems, try to show everyone else, and can't think of a way to solve the problem (because there is no problem!), and then they blame everyone else for not doing anything about it. Stuff like that doesn't belong on these boards, if you ask me. But then, I'm no mod.
     
  8. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    how much are you willing to bet on that? Many of the rap concerts ive ever been to (that were large scale) were either mostly hispanic or mostly white (eminem, ruff riders tour) in their audiences. and all of the people i know (of multiple ethnicities) believe eminem is a damn good white rapper. and i live in texas.

    Well, I live near L.A. Maybe that makes a difference. And most white kids around here aren't as interested in rap as kids of other race. Whenever I see a clip from a recent rap concert from around here, all I usually see is black guys in the audience.
     
  9. Elite_Guard

    Elite_Guard Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2001
    this whole topic is stupid... if you think SW is racist or you think there arent enough people of a certain race in star wars then dont read it!!! go away@!!
     
  10. loontexas

    loontexas Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Sturm - Ok, LA. well, i guess demography may be playing a part in our points of views. there are black people here though, just not as many as whites or hispanics. Accually, you'd figure that rap would appeal more to white kids out in LA than down here in texas. at least thats what a lot of people here believe.


    Ash - i think YOU are one of those tpyes of peoples that either dont believe in or subscribe to prejudice yourself, simply because when someone mentions the very notion that there may be a bit of biasing, you attack them with petty taunts. real mature.

    blond hair and blue eyes = white. doesnt take a genious to see that. look at the characters present in EU that weve seen ON-screen or at starwars.com, and youll see that the ethnic descriptions of basic humans pretty much follows (I may be wrong, but i dont think lando calrissian was blonde haired and blue eyed, then again its been a few hours since i last watched ESB, so i may be wrong).
     
  11. NeoStar9

    NeoStar9 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2002
    I would just like to add my support and say that I agree with loontexas and jediSmurf. I've noticed that with the Star Wars EU books but I really try not to let it bother me though. Still when a story is interesting I really don't notice it but when its boring it's one of those things that become aparent like when person starts to notice writing style among other things. I don't think its racist but it would be nice if there was a bit more diversity in the books. Hell maybe I should send in a rough draft of a story(collection of short stories) I'm working on and try to make the cast of characters more trekish.
     
  12. Kaeru_OS

    Kaeru_OS Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    I'm a writer. A fantasy writer at that. In the realm of fantasy, you come across many spicies and races, beyond just humans (elves, faeries, gnomes, orcs, etc). In a fntasy setting, you can't really claim rascism and what not due to the fact that there are more races other than humans running around. I mean, if you're goign to do that, maybe someone should complain why there aren't any tall Gnomes.


    Star Wars is much like fantasy. Different speices other than humans. So IMHO the race card shouldn't really be broguhtinto play. Of course, you run into some other problems as well. I'm of direct french descent (can't speak the language though :(

    If you want to get ultra-pc, I could say "there's no french people in fantasy, whats up with that?". That's an extreme example, but the point is; you can't NOT offend everyone (there will always be one person with a problem with what you're writing).



    I'd be remissed if I didn't point out that there are a few characters who kick butt six ways form sunday and aren't white; Lando, Dash Rendar, Mace Windu is black, Shalla Nelprin.
     
  13. JediFreac

    JediFreac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 2002
    You do have a point here. Most of the author-made characters are human, not Duros or Wookiee or Falleen...

    Still...is the Star Wars galaxy really a galaxy where all the heros look like clones of one another? Because if it is, it shouldn't be. I'm sure it that makes it very hard for the comic book artists.

    *don't shoot!*
     
  14. Kaeru_OS

    Kaeru_OS Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2002
    The Vong themselves are author made, and not one of them are human =8o)
     
  15. loontexas

    loontexas Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2001

    kaeru - mace windu is black, but he is NOT an EU character. if you read my previous posts ive stated MANY times that GL has embraced the idea that there are more than just one type of humans (white) in the GFFA, and that adds to the boggle. GL, the creator makes his movies multi ethnic in terms of human characters, yet no writers in EU do? that doesnt make sense.

    also, yes, SW is a fantasy, but its a fantasy that revolves around HUMAN characters. hence they should at least be practical in terms of humans in reality. not all humans are white. not even 99% of them, which is about the proportion in EU.

    imagine your reading a book that takes place in settings throughout the world. its a fictional book of course, but its at least in some part based on a sort of reality (there are humans in it). as you read, you notice that all the characters are described as blond haired and blue eyed. there isnt any derogatory comments on other races, but for the most part the story just doest acknowledge that other types of humans exist. translate that analogy to the SW EU books and youll understand what im saying.

    theres a BIG difference between saying 'there arent any french people in this book' and saying 'there are no blacks or asians in ANY of these books'. french is a culture, not a race (yes, ive heard the joke, but lets keep in context here). french people are white. if a french person stands in a crowd of say, polish people and doesnt say anything, you wont know hes french. if a chinese or african american stands in a crowd of those very same people, people will notice they are different. thats the difference between culture and race.
     
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