Explain the unexplainable? Plot anamoly discussion

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Clone434, Jun 1, 2002.

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  1. Jedi Chikara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 1999
    star 4
    Um, he lives on a planet far away from anywhere important. Why would anyone care what his last name is on a lawless, distant world?
  2. Darth Schwarzenegger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 1999
    star 1
    In response to the second point, about Luke being "hidden" from Vader on Tatooine, the answer is quite simple.

    Anakin has his memory erased, along with C-3PO and R2-D2.

    It makes almost as much sense as all that midichlorian garbage.
  3. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    I'm thinking Anakin will know Padme is pregnant, not know its twins, he'll think Padme and child have died (but they wont although Padme will be really hurt), so never looks for them.
  4. Jedi Chikara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 1999
    star 4
    That's what I'm thinking as well.
  5. IG-99 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 1
    Yes, Tatooine does not belong to the Republic, ergo it will not belong to the Empire. So the Empire has no access to the population lists of Tatooine and therefore cannot stumble over a file titled "Skywalker".
  6. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    These "explanations" for how Luke gets away with using the Skywalker name for 20 years misses the point: why take the chance?

    Tatooine may be remote and may not be under the jurisdiction of the Empire, but it is visited by smugglers, traders, and others who DO travel to star systems within the Empire.

    Why take this chance by retaining the Skywalker name? Is it that hard to simply call the kid Luke Antilles? It looks like half the Galaxy has that last name.

    At least Yoda can use the excuse Dagobah was apparently uninhabited.
  7. Darth-Murder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2001
    star 1
    "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough". - Ben Kenobi, ANH
  8. Darth-Murder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2001
    star 1
    In the OT, I always assumed that Palpatine was displaying true Force power when he made those wristcuffs fall of Luke's hands. The shots clearly show that Luke think it's incredible that Palpatine has the power to command technology with the Force. But in "AOTC", Obi-Wan just opens those doors on Kamino with the Force. I feel this is a minor inconsistency which could be made a HUGE inconsistency --> since controlling technology with the Force, as an ability, should change a lot of the character's decisions and motivations in the film; like, why didn't Qui-Gon use the Force to locate Anakin's slave chip?
  9. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    There is another one. Obi-Wan acts as if Luke hunting for him and then giving him the lightsaber and "lying" to him about his father is just... ho hum.. yawn... so normal. Like this is something he does every day. It should be more dramatic.

    Also, Beru acts as if Luke being "like his father" is funny. Huh? Is Beru on paxil? :D

    RB
  10. SLAVE2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2000
    star 5
    These "explanations" for how Luke gets away with using the Skywalker name for 20 years misses the point: why take the chance?

    I think that will just be Padme's decision, she must still love Anakin and want his family name to live on.
  11. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    Why would smugglers know a farm boy from out beyond Anchorhead? Luke only made it into Mos Eisley once or twice before going there with Obi-Wan, and then he'd be just one more farmer's kid from the outliers.
    Unlike his father, he never made any sort of name for himself on the planetary stage.
  12. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    Razorback makes a good point about Beru.

    Beru: Owen, there's just too much of his [Luke's] father in him.

    Owen: Hmmm, that's too bad considering that his father is the galactic, dark-forced, cyborgized personification of evil.

    Paxil, indeed!
  13. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    Hehehe... out of everything that I consider a plot hole in ANH (at least until Lucas fills it) it is those comments by Beru that make absolutely no sense.

    Maybe Lucas could somehow change the entire scene to sound more ominous.

    RB
  14. Wilhelm_Schmilhelm Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Okay, new user, first post, and all that. Be gentle. ;)

    With all this talk about Vader and the twins, I've developed my own theory. I don't think I've seen anybody else talk about it, so as far as I know, I'm not stealing anybody's idea.

    I almost hope I'm wrong about it. I prefer to be surprised. But here goes.

    By Episode III, Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant, but some set of events arises that keeps him away from her during the actual birth. He's a busy guy, what with turning to evil and all.

    Obi-wan, through some means, finds out about the twins. Maybe he's even there for their birth. The Jedi are defeated, and evil controls the galaxy. But Obi-wan knows that strength in the Force is hereditary. He believes that he holds in his hands a new hope. (Sorry. Had to be done.)

    Obi-wan masterminds the whole affair. Think "plans within plans" here.

    He secretly sends Leia to Alderaan to be raised by one of the most influential leaders in the Senate, Bail Organa. Since neither Vader nor the Emperor knows who she is, they won't take any particular notice as she comes of age and rises to a position of leadership in the Senate, and later the Rebellion. She'll remain "safely anonymous."

    Luke is the distraction, a cover story to conceal his sister. Obi-wan allows Anakin to find out about Luke, because he's using Anakin's arrogance against him. Remember? "He's just a boy. Obi-wan can no longer help him." Anakin immediately dismisses his son as being nothing more than a farm boy from the Outer Rim. He essentially becomes the galaxy's most infamous deadbeat dad, abandoning his son as he embraces the dark side and becomes Darth Vader.

    So Obi-wan goes into hiding in the Jundland Wastes. A long time passes before he is called upon to act again.

    I dunno. It's just an idea.

    EDIT: Dang. Hit "preview" twice, and I still forgot something. As everybody has no doubt figured out by now, R2-D2 and Threepio have their memories erased by Obi-wan, not because they know about Luke, but because they know about Leia. Leia is the real secret, the "mole" that Obi-wan hopes will someday bring the Empire down from within.

    See? No holes.
  15. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Quote:
    "These "explanations" for how Luke gets away with using the Skywalker name for 20 years misses the point: why take the chance? "

    Like I said, it might not be Obi Wan's decision. Padme may have made the decision thinking that Anakin was just dead.

    And Beru must not have known that Anakin became Vader.
  16. Saint_of_Killers Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    "Yes, Tatooine does not belong to the Republic, ergo it will not belong to the Empire."

    Actually I'm pretty sure that when the Repiblic becoems the Empire, they conquer alot of systems that hadn't belonged to the Republic. And besides, Tatooine was crawling with Stormtroopers in ANH.
  17. Razorback Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2001
    star 5
    Ok I am ALMOST buying this.... this is a very good theory... however, there needs to be a way to explain Leia to anyone who might ask "Wait... you were pregnant? I never noticed... and now you have a little princess? Wow... and to think, Padme was pregnant too yet I have not seen her in a while" how little Leia came to be.

    I think if Vader allowed Luke to stay alive it would be because he felt that Palpatine would order him killed and Vader wanted to use his son later as a way to kill the Emperor and take over himself. This I could see... but then Vader had to know that Obi-Wan was alive and "protecting" him. Why would he allow that? After all, isn't it Obi-Wan who makes him into a robot?

    I guess I'm looking for motivation.

    RB
  18. Kwai_Gone_Gin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    I think its more likely that Vader knows he had a son.

    For a start..to keep Leia safe, they give her a different surname and take her to people unrelated to Vader. Whereas Luke retains the Skywalker name and is given to relatives of Vader. This would be incredibly stupid unless Padme etc knew that he would not be in immediate danger from Vader. Instead they send him to relatives with Obi-Wan watching over him from a distance.

    I think that Vader knows of Luke's existance, but does not give this information to Palpatine - he wants Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor when he is older.

    The first time he senses Luke's presence is the Death Star run. He does not immediately sense it is Luke, but directly after makes the connection. Then he reveals himself to his son, tempting him to the Dark side.
  19. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    "Padme may have made the decision thinking that Anakin was just dead."

    This makes sense but for one point: the Emperor would probably want to track down any Skywalker children to try to recruit them to the dark side or at least kill them so they wouldn'y be a threat. This issue was taken up in the original trilogy.

    Still, I guess the Padme-wants-Luke-to-retain-the-Skywalker-name theory might work...

    Obi-Wan: Padme, I've hired these Rodian smugglers to take you and little Leia from Mos Eisley to Alderaan. You'll be living with Bail Organa as "relatives." Is little Luke safe with Owen and Beru?

    Padme: Yes.

    Obi-Wan: Good. What alias did you give Luke?

    Padme: Alias?

    Obi-Wan: Yes, what last name will he be known by here on Tatooine?

    Padme: Skywalker.

    Obi-Wan: SKYWALKER?! Idiot! Anakin SKYWALKER grew up here! Anakin SKYWALKER was the first human to win the Boonta Eve Pod Race! The SKYWALKER name is therefore known all over Tatooine! Anakin SKYWALKER's claim to fame is having the highest midi-chlorian count in history! What were you thinking?

    Padme: Luke has a right to know his heritage.

    Obi-Wan: [swearing in Huttese] Well, I guess I'll just have to stay here and watch over things now! And I already had a nice, comfortable apartment on Sullust where I was going to hide and help the Rebellion. SKYWALKER! I don't freaking believe this!

    This scene will probably not make it into the final cut of Episode III.
  20. Pope_Will Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Vader would have no need to track and kill his relations (the Lars family) and does not know Luke exists - we can assume Ben is fibbing when he says "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough. . ." or that he is looking at it from "a certain point of view."

    What I find more troubling is the nature of the Jedi Council - apart from the medichlorians, which will only make story sense if the jedi discover in Ep III that their is an exception and that one can have the Force without them. What practical reason is there to forbid Anakin from doing the obvious - rounding up his mom and putting her up in the comfy big city instead of leaving her to rot for ten years in the desert? How "good" are the jedi? When Qui Gon said "I didn't really come here to free slaves" I thought well what are you doing in a Star Wars movie, Schindler? Now I think the jedi are a sort of slave themselves and it is hard to thrill to that. I think this is why there is so much reaction along the lines of having no "Corellian" element. Anakin should have provided that - and in fact I had always assumed Ben regarded Solo as his young self the way he reacts to his rants with familiar humor. So perhaps there should be little more of the bad boy Ewen in Obi Wan.

    In this day and age, Lucas should know it will be tricky for an audience to embrace action stars who are priests and politicians. Even then, I mean, I saw Ep II twice and I've been enthusiastic about it, but these are the problems nagging me. Maybe Lucas isn't selling freedom so much in these films, but I am worried that the line of thinking might be the same that gave us Greedo shooting first.


  21. martoon Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    The only reasoning of the obvious unawareness Dooku showed when he heard of the clone army defeating his droids:
    The was indeed the Jedi 10 years ago who ordered the clone army secretly, aware of the existence of the Dark force arising (how did he pay though?!?!?). Was he dark as well or not? And then he hired Jango. And was killed by Jango. Who played a double game, hoping he could take over control of the clones and become emperor, when time comes. Until then he played with Dooku as well...
    May sound stupid, but Sidios doesn't seem to know about the clones beforehand. Just looks happy for the lucky chance to be able to use them to destroy the Jedi... What do you think?!
  22. SIberioS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2002
    The place is crawling with Stormtroopers because they just lost the plans to the Death Star. Of course the place is gonna be crawling with them.

    However, the Empire has no formal control over the planet, seeing as the Hutt's seem to control everything on the planet.
  23. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
  24. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    Quote:
    "This makes sense but for one point: the Emperor would probably want to track down any Skywalker children to try to recruit them to the dark side or at least kill them so they wouldn'y be a threat."


    Who says the Emperor knew that Skywalker had kids? He could have found out later.
  25. Cruelt-Kan-Lamech Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    Look, the only ones who KNEW FOR SURE that Anakin=Vader were Obi/ Yoda/ Palpy. They weren't gonna broadcast Vaders previous identity. No possible way. So no one, and I do mean NO ONE would look for, notice, care about Luke Skywalker.
    Padme might know, which would explain to a fearsome degree Leia's 'she was very sad' comment. but I think that when Obi has to "kill" Anakin for whatever mistake/ horrendous action the rest of the people who care about Anakin truely beleive he's dead. Whenever Obi finds out about the Vader/Anakin connection, he keeps it from Padme for her own sake. It's bad enough her Beloved had to be killed for evil or whatever, but to know what he is turned into? there is no reason for her to know and I think his "death" is reason enough to be sad. Plus, i think that her and Leia hiding under the name Organa is at least in part to protect Padme so she never finds out.
    As for the Lars family, I assume they know about Anakins tragic "death" and why it happened, or at least that Anakin had some...issues that lead to his "death", but even after 20 years I think only the pain of Anakins "death" in shame could be discussed by Beru and Lars in such a...important but tranquil way. 20 years is long enough to talk about the shameful death of your adoptive son's father but not about his turning into the paragon of evil, so They don't know.

    I'm the guy who puts two and two togeter, so if you see holes im my overly long comment, please comment
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