Explain the unexplainable? Plot anamoly discussion

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Clone434, Jun 1, 2002.

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  1. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    Or he may have felt a disturbance in the force when he was trying to shoot Luke down and could feel that there was some relation. Just a thought.

    We know he felt a disturbance in the Force.
    "The Force is strong with this one."

    The Marvel Comics had a great storyline on Vader's hunt for the name of he pilot who shot down the Death Star.

    The late, great Archie Goodwin wrote it.

    Anyway, despite that wonderful story in something that most people won't admit into the EU, I think it went something like this.

    Vader didn't know what his troops did on Tatooine. The tapes came to Alderaan, after all, so why dig into the reports. But after spending a few months in a TIE fighter limping home from Yavin, he backtracked it.

    The ship came to Alderaan from Tatooine. Kenobi was on it, but someone else with Jedi Skills was also on it, or that tremor in the Force wouldn't have been there.

    So. Hmm. Troops track the pod. They shoot some Tusken Raiders to get the banthas. he gets wistful for a moment, thinking of the good old days when he was young and slaughtered Sandpeople unmercifully. Sigh. then he grabs another hot chocolate, a passion he shares with his son in the EU, and keeps reading reports. Oh yeah. Someone is going to have to teach those troopers how to spell Jawa. It's a double-u, not v. Two droids. An R2 unit and an old fashioned protocol droid. Hey, I used to have droids like that. Really handy, too.
    Oh, they got them from Lars. That's where Mom is buried. Oh, they burned the place down and killed my step-brother. Surly cuss. Oh. they killed his wife too. She made a great YOGURT. And the blue milk was just the BEST. Damn shame that.
    Oh, Beru said her nephew was missing. Who's that? Duke Skywalker? Kid has my last name.
    My last name.
    And by backtracking, the pieces fall into place.
    Vader can know nothing, conceivably, during Star Wars, and be searching for Luke by name at the time of Empire, no problemo.
  2. Sciwalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 1
    Obi-Wan simply does not know C-3PO. He never meets him in the PT. R2-D2 is another thing, though. I guess, he is surprised to meet him again in EP4, but doesn't mention it.

    umm, why was Obi-Wan there to rescue Luke? He knew exactly who Artoo and Threepio were. He was just keeping the story from Luke, like he knew he had too.

    Somebody makes the decision that both Threepio and R2 are to stay with Leia. Ben obviously takes Luke to Tatooine. But he hides the kid with in-laws instead of training the kid from the get go.

    Why?

    Why keep the name and put him on the planet where Vader might come looking, or worse, Palpatine?

    "You're using her as bait."
    "It was her idea."

    Hiding in plain sight. Purloined letter. Or Luke was left out there to dry because the bad guys might know or guess , and Leia is the only real hope.
  3. EMK Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    Here's a wierd twist, i don't know if you guys/gals have thought of this.

    In ROTJ, when Luke asks Yoda if Vader really is his father, Yoda replies, "most unexpected, and unfortunate" and explains unfortunate as in Luke was not ready .. but "unexpected"??? Unexpected as in Yoda thought Vader would not know or care or reveal he was Luke's father to luke?

    I re-watched ESB/ROTJ to try to figure out whether Vader knew he had a son or not and you can't really tell. And if you knew he had a son, why not search your step-brothers place? All i can think of was how tramatic his experience there was .
    Also, I have another possible explanation, maybe he left Luke there on purpose? Was it "foreshadowing" the future in AOTC when you see the vader/anakin shadow and Padme embrace and Anakin says, you will be safe here, these are good people?

    eek.. im ramblign !

    anakin [face_love] [face_love]
    Obi-wan [face_love]
    Luke [face_plain]
  4. Cruelt-Kan-Lamech Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    I think it is pretty cut and dry about Vader not knowing about Luke. If you want to know why, I wrote a pretty sizable post near the bottom of page two, so go read it.
    As for the whole Luke as Skywalker in hiding problem, I think the only real hole in that is what Master Chkls (or whatever his/her name is) said about the Imperial Navy, Luke wanted to join so bad he could taste it and Luke training to be a Tie Fighter pilot or somesuch on the Imperial roster WOULD have raised eyebrows eventually. But Master covered that pretty well (Freakishly well actually) by fitting Owen Lars's seemingly unneccesary keeping of Luke at home. Who would have forsaw Luke wanting to Join the Imperials? Sure, he just wanted to be a pilot but still. So Owen deals best he could. Problem solved as to that mistery. Any others? And no, I don't think Kenobi would train Luke. Luke would, (when he found out, as he DID) try to save his father, (As he did) but if he was raised by Obi, Vader=Ani would have come out. Really. Kenobi had to watch and be near but had to keep a distance. I really think that Nobody had any desire to have what happened to Luke happen. Even Yoda/Kenobi. Sure, It turns out alright, but I think they just wanted them to have a LONG and happy life, neither of wich would (conceivably) happen if they were raised to Kill their father or some such nonsense. Of course, that doesn't keep them from capitalizing on it when Luke is drawn by fate.

    Oh and I don't think threepeo and artoo get memory washed. it just doesn't jive with their memorys of adventures and the personality they developed wich again conceivably takes years. I think it's probably just holes, but I'm up for discuss
  5. QBF Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 1
    "I think if Vader allowed Luke to stay alive it would be because he felt that Palpatine would order him killed and Vader wanted to use his son later as a way to kill the Emperor and take over himself. This I could see... but then Vader had to know that Obi-Wan was alive and "protecting" him. Why would he allow that? After all, isn't it Obi-Wan who makes him into a robot?

    I guess I'm looking for motivation. "

    Great point. I've been trying to figure this out myself. I think it is possible that Vader actually wants Obi-Wan to train Luke. He wants Obi-Wan to train Luke, because he (Vader) would not be able to train Luke without the Emperor finding out. Then, when the time is right and the force "wills it", Vader will come and get his boy and finish his training.

    The only other thing that I can think of is maybe this is why Obi-Wan changes his name to Ben and becomes a hermit who lives in seclusion in the desert. He knows that at some point Vader will come looking for his son, and he doesn't want to be found when that day comes.

  6. Zaminara_Padme_Arbor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    Perhaps Vader didn't know about Leia because NO ONE ELSE DID. Leia was placed under the care of Bail Organa(I think), and USED THE LAST NAME OF ORGANA FOR ALL OF THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY!!! They only learned of Leia's TRUE parentage in ROTJ. Hope this clears some of this up.
  7. QBF Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 1
    "2. Vader did not know he had kids. He feels the Force in Luke at the battle of Yavin, and then, obviously, the name of Luke Skywalker becomes famous for blowing up the Death Star across the galaxy, and he thinks, "Oh, well that makes sense." That's how he figures it out."

    This will not do. If Vader thinks he doesn't have any children, then he will never think that someone named Skywalker is his child, just because of his last name.

    If you didn't have any children, and you met someone that had your last name, would you think it was your child? Of course not.

    But if you knew you had a child, a child that had been kept in hiding since birth by Obi-Wan, a child you discovered shortly after Obi-Wan appeared on the Death Star, a child that would be strong in the force because of heredity, a child whose name you heard when the Death Star was destroyed, a child whose force you could sense during the Death Star battle, this would all make perfect sense.

    Knowing that he had a child is the only thing that would allow Vader to tie the other clues together.
  8. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    >>>>The only other thing that I can think of is maybe this is why Obi-Wan changes his name to Ben and becomes a hermit who lives in seclusion in the desert. He knows that at some point Vader will come looking for his son, and he doesn't want to be found when that day comes.<<<<<

    From five movies, we've learned that Anakin/Vader's weakness is his attachment to his loved ones, be it Shmi, Padme, or Luke. We also know that he's not against breaking the rules to appease his emotions. (Going back to tatooine, marrying Padme) I believe that Vader will make a deal with Ben that Luke will live if he never leaves Tatooine. I'm sure he keeps it from the emperor. Once Luke leaves Tatooine, all bets are off.

    His promise to Padme: "I will do anything you ask." could also have something to do with it.
  9. QBF Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 1
    "Not to stray off the ep II board, but I think Vader's mitochondria perception skills must be damaged in ep III, because in the OT, it's clear he has had lots of contact with Leia (remember he's going to torture her in ANH), yet doesn't perceive that the feisty babe that looks a bit like Amidala, and a bit like he used to, is also chock full of the little buggers? "

    Exactly. Vader's perception of Luke's force power through space during the battle of the Death Star does not explain how he knew that Luke was his son. Otherwise, Vader would have been able to perceive that Leia was his daughter when he was face-to-face with her all of those times.

    Vader needed some other piece of evidence that Luke was his son for those feelings in the force to make sense.

    Remember, it is only AFTER Vader tells Luke that he is his father in ESB that Luke can sense that Vader is his father and communicate with him across space through the force. Awareness of the other's existence is a predicate to sensing the other's identity in the force.

  10. Nazgul_Dark Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    I have two "anamolys" i´d like to discuss


    1.- Leia is a "Princess".
    Why the f... is she a princess, his putative father Bail Organa was a senator, he was not the King of Alderaan now was he?. Please correct me if i am wrong.


    2.- Padme/Amidala is a "Queen". What the f..., she was elected by the people of Naboo. Monarchs, by definition, are not elected. She could´ve been President Amidala or something but not Queen Amidala.


    P.S. I´ve come to the conclusion that c3po, r2d2, Obi Wan, Anakin Owen and Beru had their memories erased.

  11. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    >>>>"Not to stray off the ep II board, but I think Vader's mitochondria perception skills must be damaged in ep III, because in the OT, it's clear he has had lots of contact with Leia (remember he's going to torture her in ANH), yet doesn't perceive that the feisty babe that looks a bit like Amidala, and a bit like he used to, is also chock full of the little buggers? "
    <<<<

    Good point, did he even think of testing her? It's possible he made some connection. He did delay her termination. "She may yet be useful to us." Then there was the moment, just before Han is lowered into the carbonite, where Leia kind of stares at Vader, sensing something (Maybe one of the famous SW bad feeling about it.}
  12. Dinoforce Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 1
    Please be kind, I'm going to post a new plot anamoly. I hope someone can help me with an answer.

    Why does Jango not continue to pursue Padme when she left Coruscant? Why was he on Kamino? Did Dooku call him off when she left Coruscant? If he did call Jango off, then how can he promise Nute Gunray that he will have her head? It seems a big stretch to assume that she will go to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan and then they can capture her there. She could have easily stayed on Naboo and allowed the Jedi to rescue Obi.
  13. OB1Anakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    I think it's safe to assume that Vader does not know of the existence of luke or leia. I do not think that Vader or Palp would let that huge detail just hang out there for 20 years! Until Luke blows the Death Star, there is no reason for his name to become well know. Follow the DS destruction is when Vader probably learns of Luke as we see in ESB. As for the academy application. He hadn't applied yet. Owen kept making him put it off until next season. :) I mean what point would anyone who meets Luke (a farmboy...basically a nobody) have to go around the galaxy telling people hey there's a Skywalker on Tatooine. Except for Vader/Palp/OB1/Yoda...that name has no meaning for people whatsoever. That's like while visiting a Mcdonald's you meet a cashier named Jon Doe. You don't know him...his name is not special. Why would you tell anyone you met ever... that you knew there was a John Doe working there.

    Someone wrote:
    This will not do. If Vader thinks he doesn't have any children, then he will never think that someone named Skywalker is his child, just because of his last name.
    If you didn't have any children, and you met someone that had your last name, would you think it was your child? Of course not.


    Perhaps Skywalker is a pretty unique name. Vader can also feel that he is strong in the force during the battle of the Death Star. Also when he finds out the name Luke Skywalker, he perhaps began looking onto it. Going back to Tatooine, putting the pieces together (talked with Luke's neighbors, visited the house, etc). The reemergence of Obi-wan all of a sudden. He would then have been able to figure out that Luke was his son. But before that there would have been no suspicions for him to investigate. Either that or maybe he knew about Luke and though he had died with Padme. Still it does not make sense that if he know about a son he wouldn't try to track him down. I mean he spent all those years going all over the galaxy tracking down and killing Jedi. You would think tracking down his son would have been a priority too. :D

    As for Jango and the armies. He was the template for the clone army that was ordered by the Jedi (Sifo-Dyas). And we know he was hired to Kill Amidala. That's his connection to being on Geonosis. It's not like he had any part in making the Droid army or recruiting separatist. The only reason he's there (we know the truth that he's working for Dooku) that the jedi can tell is as a bounty hunter. Motivated by money and working both sides so be it if they are willing to pay him enough. If they had captured him, perhaps he could have shed some light...but now sans head it's a moot point.

    The Beru Quote from ANH is pretty good point. Could she be refering the Anakin before he became Vader? Or do Owen and Beru even know that Anakin is Vader? I mean all Obi-wan has to tell them is that Anakin was killed by a man called Darth Vader. Vader and Palp will kill Luke if they ever found him so i need you to secretly raise him. Owen and Beru do not need to know Anakin is Vader? I can't think of anything that would contradict this, but I'm sure you guys will let me know. :D
  14. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    "...there's a Skywalker on Tatooine. Except for Vader/Palp/OB1/Yoda...that name has no meaning for people whatsoever."

    "To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born."
    -Obi-Wan to Luke, ROTJ

    I thought Anakin Skywalker was the first human to ever win the Boonta Eve Pod Race. This might not be headline news on Coruscant, but it very well could be on Tatooine.

    The point I have tried to make in my previous post is that if the objective is to hide Luke and Leia, changing their last names -- as happens with Leia -- would just be common sense.

    Moreover, hiding Luke's identity from himself might be important. If he introduced himself as a Skywalker to anyone they might say, "I heard about a Skywalker who made local history by being the first human to win a podrace. Are you related to him?" This sort of thing could start Luke looking into his past, which Owen and Beru strongly discouraged.

    Is it really that much trouble to refer to Luke as "Lars" instead of "Skywalker?"
  15. OB1Anakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    Good point..rsterling

    I can't really come up with a good one for that. Maybe when Podracing was banned on Tatooine people just forgot. Or maybe Luke just never got around much. Maybe people in around Toche station don't associte with outside settlements much. I know weak points, but like I said I can't think of any good counters to the Podrace point. Maybe someone else has an idea.
  16. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    How about the all-purpose answer:

    It'll be explained in Episode III!
  17. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    >>>I can't really come up with a good one for that. Maybe when Podracing was banned on Tatooine people just forgot. Or maybe Luke just never got around much. Maybe people in around Toche station don't associte with outside settlements much. I know weak points, but like I said I can't think of any good counters to the Podrace point. Maybe someone else has an idea.<<<

    Who won the MLB NL mvp 30 years ago?
  18. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    From my original post:

    I thought Anakin Skywalker was the first human to ever win the Boonta Eve Pod Race.

    If Anakin Skywalker was the first member of his species to place first in a major sporting event, how long would the name stay famous?

    Who was the first black American to play baseball in the major leagues? Answer: Jackie Robinson. Even if you're not a baseball fan, you've heard the name (unless you're really culturally unaware.) That was 55 years ago.
  19. OB1Anakin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 1
    Good example OrlandoT... ;) I mean maybe people just forget. I don't know how else to explain it.
  20. Padme Bra Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 1999
    star 6
    So what if Luke heard that his father was the first to win the Boonta Eve race?
  21. rsterling78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 5
    So what if Luke heard that his father was the first to win the Boonta Eve race?

    As I said before, this might start Luke asking questions and investigating his past. Given the level of technology we see in Star Wars, it's entirely possible that within a few minutes of hearing this information, Luke might be able to access a computer network on Tatooine that would contain records...

    "In the year (whatever), Anakin Skywalker became the first member of the human race to win the Boonta Eve Pod Race. Skywalker, the slave of a Toydarian junk merchant named Watto..."

    Assuming Watto still lived on Tatooine, Luke could contact him and then...

    Watto: Yeah, I used to own Anakin Skywalker. About 10 years after that race, he came back to look for his mother. He was a Jedi Knight, too! Can ya' beat that?

    I'm not any of this is likely to happen. Let me say yet again:

    CHANGING LUKE'S LAST NAME WOULD REDUCE THE PROBABILITY OF PROBLEMS LIKE THIS DEVELOPING FROM SMALL TO ESSENTIALLY ZERO!
  22. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    >>>>Who was the first black American to play baseball in the major leagues? Answer: Jackie Robinson. Even if you're not a baseball fan, you've heard the name (unless you're really culturally unaware.) That was 55 years ago.<<<<

    Did they discrimate against humans? Did humans have their own human pod races. Besides, I don't think that pod racing is as big as basebal. More like minor league Nascar. They raced in the outer rim for pete's sake.
  23. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    >>>CHANGING LUKE'S LAST NAME WOULD REDUCE THE PROBABILITY OF PROBLEMS LIKE THIS DEVELOPING FROM SMALL TO ESSENTIALLY ZERO!<<<

    What problems? He lived in the outskirts of a planet that was also in the outskirts of the galaxy. You seem to equate Pod Racing with something akin to baseball, when it was more like stock racing. It wasn't even raced in a big system, but in a system that was out on the frontier of the galaxy.
  24. Cruelt-Kan-Lamech Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 1
    I think many of us, myself included, have made very good points as to why no one changed Lukes last name. Read the back posts. Oh, and for the record maybe Leia was Skywalker when she was born but got adopted by Bail and that was the only reason her last name changed. Boring but possible.

    But to make a final point. It is fun to make up good reasons about why these things happened, but don't get to caught up in it. Don't forget. The reason Luke was Skywalker was because thats what George wanted it to be. No secrets, just a characters name. As for Vader, he wasn't supposed to know about Luke, so he didn't. Story points. Go ahead and find cool explinations as to why it all happened but don't forget that it happened to facilitate the story. Oh and read the back posts, we really got some cool ideas.
  25. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    About Jackie Robinson...

    Sure, most people are familiar with the name and who he is. But of all the times you've met someone with the last name Robinson, how many times have you suspected that person was Jackie Robinson's mysterious offspring?
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