Explain the unexplainable? Plot anamoly discussion

I don't think it's inconsistent. You can have a Unique name and yet be a nobody. You can have what ever name you want but if no one has a reason to ask your name or to remember it. I used John Doe just to illustrate a non-memorable person!

1) In AOTC, Obi-Wan personally learns of the existence of both armies, and learns of Jango Fett's involvement with both. Why does he not get more suspicious of the clones? After all, if I'm not mistaken, he's the one that, looking over the huge clone army says, "we almost lost that one." The best answer I can come up with is that he doesn't assume Jango Fett has any allegiences and believes Jango is helping both sides as a sort of free-agent mercenary. He doesn't even see these two armies as related initially. But when Jango is so closely linked to D'koo (sitting in the luxury box with him), and later, the two armies do battle, it seems incredible for Obi-Wan and the remaining Jedi Council to assume that Jango was purely a hired gun for two unrelated armies.

I agree with some of your points. Obiwan sees Jango as a Bounty Hunter and really how is he connected to the droid army? He goes to Geonosis, and Obiwan follows. Obiwan learns that Jango was hired to kill Padme by Nute. And later in the VIP box there Jango is with Nute as well (so don't look at it as he can only be working for Dooku cuz he standing next to Dooku, Nute and others are there as well). He's a hired gun. He was hired to kill Padme.

2. In the OT, we are told that Luke and Leia were both "hidden" from Vader. Vader didn't even know he had a daughter, so it might be believable that he wouldn't find Leia--even when placed with Palp's former right-hand man, Bail Organa. But Vader knew he had a son. Doesn't it seem incredible that Vader wouldn't be able to find him on Tatoine? living with his step-brother, who, in AOTC, he meets? Seems a mighty big stretch. The only explanation I see is that Palp didn't tell him he had a son until sometime after ANH.

Yes it is a big stretch. If Vader knows the whole time don't you think he would have tried to find him. Some others here suggested that Vader may even know he is on Tatooine as he put him there to hide him from Palp. If that were true, doesn't it seem funny that when he's overhead Tatooine, he doesn't even think twice about the fact that oh yeah my son is down there. Not to mention, imagine if Luke was home instead of looking for the droids. What would Vader say "yeah kill by stepbrother and his wife, but leave my hidden boy alone" I mean Vader could have ordered his own sons death on Tatooine. And Palp telling Vader he has a son. It was established in the OT that the reason Obiwan hid luke was because if the Emperor found out he would have destroyed him as he felt he were a threat. If the Emperor though they were a threat why wait until Luke was full grown and able to defend himself before sending Vader after him. If you were Palp, wouldn't you have gotten rid of him as soon as possible.

I agree Clone, good discussions...

Ok, it's time to set some things straight.

1. Vader doesn't know about Luke. Padme will have her children in secret, give Leia to Bail Organa, give Luke to Obi-Wan. She will tell Obi_wan to hide him on Tattooine, after all Tattooine is " a haven for people that don't want to be found" (Qui-Gon)and remember, Shmi says "the republic doesn't exist out here" and "it's controled by the Hutts" Why the hell would Vader want to go back to a planet full of coarse sand Lucas has gone out of his way to show Tatooine as a "desolate place" on the Outter Rim where nobody can be found, let's just accept this and move on.

2. Obi-wan picks the Jundland wastes for the same reason they hide Luke there, plus he can watch over him and hopefully befriend him and get him into the Force.
BUT, Yoda prevents Obi-Wan from training him sooner. That's why Yoda says in ESB "this one a long time have I watched, all his life as he looked away, to the future, the horizon, never his mind on where he was, what he was doing! Adventure,HEH. Excitement, HEH. A Jedi craves not these things! You are reckless!"

They didn't want Lukes fate to be the same as Vaders. They were hoping Leia would be the savior.

3. "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your Uncle wouldn't allow it, he feared you would follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistc crusade like your father did"

Bullcrap! Obi-Wan is a smooth talker, he's trying to get Luke interested in the Force by playing on Lukes interest in his father.
Why do you think he tells Luke that Vader killed his father? SO LUKE GETS MAD AND WANTS TO KILL VADER!!! Why do you think he says "follow old Obi_wan on a crusade like his father" MAYBE SO LUKE FOLLOWS HIM ON A CRUSADE!!

I don't think Yoda approved of Obi-Wans tactics, but hey, who cares when you are the last couple of Jedi left.

4. Luke says in ROTJ "I've accepted that you were once Anakin Skywalker my father"
"It is the name of your true self you've only FORGOTTEN" Maybe the Emporer drove out all the memories Anakin Skywalker had.

5. 3P0 and R2 have their memories erased so they don't pose a threat to the secret of Anakin becoming Vader, or the existence of Luke and Leia. Only Obi-Wan and Yoda know about Anakin. Owen and Beru don't know squat or they would have took of running years ago. When Beru says "too much of his Father" she means he's headstrong, reckless and impulsive, just like Anakin was when they first met him.

It all fits people! FREE YOUR MINDS!

I think Darth Lil is my new favorite person. I wish the droids didn't get mem wiped, just cause they would essentialy be different people after words, and that just sucks. Of course, it'll pobably happen. Hopefull it's just the "bad" parts that get wiped.

Hey. Question. This seems like a plot anomoly to me, but if it seems like another thread, let me know.

If Dooku knows about Sidious and is working for him (which we saw) Why did he do his scene whith Obi the way he did. he seemed awful sincere to me. In my opinion, Dooku/Obi is the echo of Vader/Luke. I mean, it's even the same numbered movie(the second) Dooku really would like to defeat Sidi, but is getting hooked by the Dark. Vader wants to destroy the Emp, but isn't strong enough alone...kinda. Plus they both get refused, pushing them on their way.

Anyone else? the only thing else I can think of is it was some lies in truth, meaning getting him to disbelive with unbeliveable truth. seems weak though.

Lucas has gone out of his way to show Tatooine as a "desolate place" on the Outter Rim where nobody can be found...

Nobody except Anakin, Shmi, and Luke Skywalker; Padme Amidala; Jar Jar Binks; Owen and Beru Lars; Jabba the Hutt; Boba Fett; Han Solo and Chewbacca; Pricess Leia; Lando Calrissian; C-3PO and R2-D2; Obi-Wan Kenobi; Qui-Gon Jinn; a number of stormtroopers; smugglers and criminals from the more "civilized" areas of the Galaxy, a number of other minor characters, all of whom arrived in two different Naboo starships, the Millenium Falcon, the Slave I, an escape pod from the Tantive IV, a Star Destroyer, an X-wing fighter as we've seen in 3 out of 5 movies.

Yeah, desolate.

*gets up from computer, bangs forehead repeatedly into wall*

Tatooine would have been an afterthought for the Empire, but some Princess named Leia and her NYPD Blue father wanted Obi-Wan to help them "with their strugle against the Empire". So she flies her ship over Tatooine, puts the plans in R2 and the droids end up blasting off in an escape pod to (cue suprise music) TATOOINE!

Now remember, when 3PO and R2 first get there the place is in fact "desolate"!
Until them pesky Jawas get em!

None of the MAIN characters or Stormtroopers for that matter, would have needed to go there if it wasn't for Leia and her droids.

Obi-Wan should have never told Bail Organa where he was hiding out. But then again, it all worked out in the end

Just to be clear. Do not forget in any of your arguments, anybody, that this takes place on a GALACTIC SCALE. a whole galaxy to get lost in? Heck, we can't even find Osama Bin Laden on one measly planet. Not to mention one small area of the planet, the middle east, (unless I'm wrong and he's chillin' in Paris) And we not only know he's there, which Vader wouldn't, but we know what he looks like, what his attitudes are. I think one boy could be lost, if Vader even knew about him, in an entire Galaxy. Disagree? Go find Osama.

I have the "If Vader might have known that he had kids, why didn't het hink to check to see if they were staying with the Lars'", question....

First off, Your wife's dead...you're basically second in command of the ENTIRE GALAXY, you have a nice bachelor pad, a smokin black suit, a new tie fighter, and the ability to use the force's 'power of suggestion trick' on any woman you want and she will sleep with you...the last thing you want is a bunch of kids running around ruining your groove.

Secondly, a little known fact: In the original draft of Emipre, Vader says, "Luke, I am your Father!" At which point Luke pulls out the old, "where have you been for the last umpteen years, huh? I get stuck on a desert planet populated by a bunch of mechanically inclined midgets in robes and blazing temperatures, with an aunt named Beru while you're jet-setting across the galaxy, hob nobbing with senators and emperors, and now, because you're starting to get a bit old and nostalgic for a stable family life you decide we should rule the universe together as father and son and I'm supposed to go along with it just because we bump into each other on Bespin? No way man, I hate you...where were you when I got my first tooth, or when I needed a coach for my little league team? I see, I'm only good enough to be your son now because the force is running strong in me all of a sudden? What would you do if I say no? Carbon freeze me or something. I wish you never came back....I hate you, you ruined my life!!!"
Cue the Imperial march, as a legion of lawyers run in and overwhelm Vader with a barrage of accusations, subpeonas, and a ton of lawsuits for his failure to pay child support over the years, his physical and emotional harrasment of one Captian Piett, and a little incident on Tatooine years ago that left a bunch of Tusken Raiders dead.

It's true, I swear!

A serious one this time...

We all know that R2D2 and C3P0 get their memories erased, so therefore they don't remember Obi-Wan or Owen and Beru Lars....
But why don't Obi-Wan and Owen remember the droids? I would think that after living with the Lars family for a while, and being as annoying as 3P0 can be, the minute he came off the sandcrawler and introduced himself, Owen would be like- "oh know, not you!!" There should have been at least some form of recognition or memory of C3P0. Especially after 3P0 introduced himself.
Any thoughts?

My apologies if this as been spoken on, but here one: why wasn?t Dooku able to sense Obi-wan while he was spying on him? He was like 3 feet away from him at one point.

this was brought up on another thread but maybe dooku wanted ob1 to see this secret meeting.

Unfortunately, there are going to be plot holes that will go unfilled.
At the time when Lucas made ANH, he had no idea that it would take off the way it did. If ANH had bombed, there would be no sequels/prequels.
I don't think that he was thinking about continuity (sp) of the storyline back then. Basically, what's done is done and he's trying his best to link them all together.

well, i'm not going to help lucas plug in the plot holes, but hopefully by the end of EP3, most of this mess will be cleared up somehow.

in the meantime, here are some possible explainations, much of which have been said before, but it needs some tightening up:

- why the skywalker name is kept with luke and why he's on tatooine
padme and/or obi wan wants to keep the skywalker lineage as a symbol of hope as well as the seed of destiny. if luke wasn't a skywalker, he would never have known about his father, his symapthy for the rebels, believe in the truth, nor would he have enough motivation go with obi wan. luke is allowed to know about anakin, as a first step to a larger world. obi wan and yoda foresees luke's destiny to confront vader. obi wan and yoda never intended to avoid vader, only to protect him and prepare him when the time is right..in fact, they know very well not to interfere with destiny. the fact that he is "bait" is one way of putting it.

- why vader doesn't go back to tatooine
first of all, vader doesn't know abot luke until his became a hero at the battle of yavin. secondly, it is a distraction and a weakness to think of your past when you've become someone else. vader is not anakin; think split personality. the more vader thinks of luke, the more vader loses his gripe on himself, and this eventually became vader's very downfall.

- why no one recognizes R2 and 3P0
i've said this before: droids are tools. they're all alike. even if a person has a special attachment to one, it's like being in love with your car or computer. you may see the same model and w/ same color passing by, but you're not going to claim it's yours. (unless you're a diehard fanatic, that's another story.) example: "Don't seem to remember ever owning a PalmPilot. Very interesting . . . "

i have gripes with the plot holes as well, and again, i hope most of these will be explained somehow.

Owen could certainly be expected to forget the droids. He hasn't had much exposure, if any, to R2 (who looks like thousands of others). And I don't think C-3PO ever introduces himself to Owen in ANH. Also, he looks completely different than the last time Owen saw him (more than 20 years prior) but a lot like many other droids. And Owen is not the kind of guy who really cares about droids as is obvious from ANH.

As for Obi-Wan, he wouldn't necessarily remember C3PO either, but there is the fact that R2 says Obi-Wan used to own him and Obi-Wan says he doesn't remember owning any droids. Obi-wan is never clear about what he does or does not know. So right there we have an issue to be cleared up in Episode 3.

If someone could help me to understand the furor over Luke Skywalker's name and Vader's knowledge of him, especially now when we are this close to episode 3, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm probably wrong, but it would seem to me that that is just such an issue that episode 3 is meant to address. I can understand why that would have been a big question after ESB came out when everything was new and surprising and unsure, but why there is so little faith now I cannot understand. I am not sure how this can be "unexplainable" or anomalous when Luke's birth and the circumstances of it have not even been addressed yet. At least we know it will be addressed in 3 years.

If it is still confusing then, well that's another story. Don't get me wrong, I love debates and theorizing and such. I'm just not sure if it's a plot hole of any kind, or unexplainable. I hope that made sense. JMHO

The same must go for the whole Obi Wan/Owen sibling issue, although to a lesser degree since that wasn't in a movie (although I think it's canon because it's a novelization). There really is no reason for Obi-Wan and Owen to have had any interaction up to this point, but clearly they know each other by Episode 4, well enough to spout judgements about one another. So that leaves Episode 3 for them to get to know each other, to at least meet. Isn't it possible that they could find out their relationship then (if one exists)? Isn't it not only possible, but reasonable for such a thing to be revealed in Episode 3? It's not like Obi-Wan would have visited Owen, why would a Jedi? Vice versa applies also. So I guess they could still be brothers.

Here's one: when Padme gets up after falling out of the troop transport in the desert, she says she's OK to the Clone who also fell out and then something like "Get what troops you can, we've got to get to that hangar".

My question is, how does she know where the transport went to after she fell out of it?

Uh....er....hum...she has the force?













(Runs out of thread)

Yoda is following her... And She may use the force because

(I know, I'm quoting the book, and I know it is only the movie counts but it struck me as strange)

Yoda says to Padme when she first arrives on Coursant after the ship blows up. He says gomething to the effect of glad to see you I am, Strong in the force you are!
(I'm not sure if it is in or with the force. I lent my book out so I can't check)

As for No. 1, I don't think Obi-Wan thought anything of it. Llama Su (sp?) told him the clones were completely obidient, with no trace of individuality. He knew that they would follow the orders of the Republic.

In ANH, Vader doesn't know anything about Luke being there, only remarking that "the Force is strong with this one" as they are in the DS trench. It's possible that Luke had slipped Vader's mind all those years, since he was busy destroying what was left of the Republic and seeking out the Rebellion. After that I'm sure he found out that Luke was part of the Rebellion.

Barring some astounding explanation in Episode III, this is simply a great big plot hole. The same sort of thing happened with Arthur Conan Doyle's stories about Sherlock Holmes. It's hard to keep a large body of fiction written at different times internally consistent. This isn't a bash, just a fact.

Ok, here's how I see it going down in EPIII:

Anakin knows that Padme is pregnant, but neither of them know what the sex of the baby is. Palpatine knows she's pregnant as well. Palpatine realizes, now that the Jedi's numbers have dwindled to almost nothing, and Anakin is closer than ever to the dark side, that Padme's children might throw a monkey wrench into his plans someday. So, he assigns Dooku to have her killed. (perhaps by blowing up her ship or something) Dooku tries, and thinks that he has killed Padme. (Everyone associated with her, including Anakin do as well). But Obi-wan, sensing that the Palpatine (or someone) would try to kill Padme, had her hidden, and a decoy or another ship of hers was destroyed instead. But, like I said, nobody except Obi-wan (and perhaps Yoda) knows that she's still alive.

Then, Palpatine makes Anakin aware that Dooku was the one who killed his wife (and unborn child) and Anakin, the rage and hatred in him exploding, faces off and kills Dooku. This is the final step that leads him fully to the dark side and under Palpatine's command. But neither of them know that Padme is still alive and that she's just given birth to twins. Obi-wan knows, and splits them up - Leia with Smits . . .uh, I mean Bail, and Luke with Owen and Beru (on the recommendation of Padme). Obi-wan then faces off with Anakin, Obi wins, and Anakin becomes Vader unbeknownst to anyone in the galaxy except Obi, Yoda, and the Emperor. Everyone else thinks Anakin has died. Even Padme thinks he's dead, which is why her remaining years are so damn sad. And Owen and Beru both think he's dead, too, although not necessarily that he was EVIL.

In this scenario, it wouldn't matter that Luke kept his last name because a) he's on such a remote planet that it would be highly unlikely that his last name would filter all the way back to the Emperor or Vader, and b) neither of them would be looking for Luke in the first place, figuring that Padme was dead and her unborn child was dead as well.

Then, in between ANH and ESB, when Vader and the Emperor find out that a 'Skywalker' had destroyed the Death Star, they put two and two together and realize that Padme must not have been killed as they originally thought, and given birth to a son, Luke -- not knowing she also had a daughter. And that Obi-wan must have trained him. The Emperor realizes that the son is a threat, so he send Vader after him.

Like I said, this is something that feasibly COULD happen in the next movie and it wouldn't break any continuity/logic errors (unless I'm missing something - please, let me know). Lucas may have something else up his sleeve. My point is, there is one more movie left and we should see how it plays out before crying foul.

Just to be clear. Do not forget in any of your arguments, anybody, that this takes place on a GALACTIC SCALE. a whole galaxy to get lost in? Heck, we can't even find Osama Bin Laden on one measly planet. Not to mention one small area of the planet, the middle east, (unless I'm wrong and he's chillin' in Paris) And we not only know he's there, which Vader wouldn't, but we know what he looks like, what his attitudes are. I think one boy could be lost, if Vader even knew about him, in an entire Galaxy. Disagree? Go find Osama.

Well, I can assue you that, if Osama was living with his uncle (who was also named Bin Laden), I'm pretty sure I could find him.

Actually, even better, lets say Bin Laden was living in Florida with Jeb Bush. Now Dubya's an idiot, but even he could find him then.

Call me crazy.

In this scenario, it wouldn't matter that Luke kept his last name because a) he's on such a remote planet that it would be highly unlikely that his last name would filter all the way back to the Emperor or Vader, and b) neither of them would be looking for Luke in the first place, figuring that Padme was dead and her unborn child was dead as well.

Again, on the Skywalker name thing, can I say once and for all, I can think of several reasons why Luke would escape Vader's notice all these years. Maybe he think's he never lived, maybe he kills Padme, maybe Dooku kills Padme, maybe he doesn't know where Luke is, maybe he's breeding Luke to replace the emperor, maybe he wants Luke to be as far away from coruscant as possible, and orders Owen to keep him there (which is why Owen dies once Luke gets his hands on the droids). Maybe Padme has triplets, and he kills one, not realizing there are two others. Now, I've got my opinion on which of these are more likely than others, but the bottom line is this:

why, if they are trying to hide Luke from Caver or the Emporer, or anybody, would they

1. give Luke Vader's last name
2. put Luke on Vader's home planet where Vader made a name for himself as the first human to win a pod race (watched by thousands and thousands of Tatoinites, and which which has been turned into a video game played as far away as Coruscant)
3. have Luke be raised by Vader's only known relatives
4. treat Leia completely differently, by separating her from Luke and not exposing her to any of these risks

The only answer is that they hid Leia, but did not hide Luke. The real question is why? But I think it laughable to suggest they hid Luke. Sure there are many ways that he would not have been found out, but that misses the point, why expose him to such risks. If you start from the right premise--that Luke was not hidden--then you can still come up with many different explanations (e.g. Vader wants Luke raised far away from empire, Luke is bait for Vader to find and to distract from Leia, etc.).

VoiceofReason, I agree with your theory. It sounds indeed the most logical to me, except for one thing that I cannot fit anywhere. One big inconsistency that exists because GL had obviously not figured the whole story and put things in the OT that do not make sense now. Here it goes:

If Leia remembers Padme that means that she was still alive after the twins were separated. Her death could have been faked but since Anakin is powerful with the Force and he loves her, has a very strong connections with her, how could he not sense that she is alive. If he knows she is pregnant he is bound to sense not only that she's alive but that she has given birth too.

In my opinion if the plot goes that Anakin doesn't know about a child of his being born, Padme should die at childborth or immediately afterwards, and Leia's memories should be explained somehow with the force instilled feelings or a step mother of some sort. If Padme lives beyond Episode III, I think Anakin would have to feel/suspect that he has a child.

Just MY two bits re: Anakin and Luke.

SW duels have a history of being filled with banter and taunts... Let's say for arguments sake Padme' is dead, Leia is on (or on her way to) Alderann. Obi and Anikan/Darth (don't know/care if he's fully Vader yet, not really relevent) are dueling... Obi claims he tried to lure Ani back... can you see the scene? Obi trying to bring him back by figuratively throwing Luke out there... The part of Vader that is still Anakin, tells Obi to take the boy and go, efectively, I'll let you live this time (If only because that's what Padme' would have wanted) but if our paths cross again...

Explains the line "You should not have come back" in ANH...
Just me thinks!

In ROTJ Leia remembers her 'Real' Mother.

It is possible that Bail takes Padme as his wife? You know, the old story, the 'just friends' guy that could offer more security and stabliilty, but with whom Padme just didn't have the spark like the reckless, more adventerous Ani? But who she succumbs to after realizing what is more important in a relationship than sexual arousal? Padme and Bail begin to raise Leia until Padme is killed.

Far fetched i know, but it could put a whole new look on Vader's face (under the mask that is) when Alderaan is Destroyed!