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Explain the unexplainable? Plot anamoly discussion

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Clone434, Jun 1, 2002.

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  1. Rob_Baajakh

    Rob_Baajakh Jedi Master star 1

    May 30, 2002
    I am not sure if anyone said this yet, but Vader could not have known that he had children. He only knew that he had a son, but did not discover that until shortly before he started searching for him(in ESB.) Palpatine could not have known either, "The Emperor knew as I knew, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him." If either of the two Sith knew, the twins would have been killed.
  2. PadmeLeiaJaina

    PadmeLeiaJaina Jedi Grand Master star 6

    May 23, 2002
    Ok I think it's near impossible to argue the point of Luke and Leia until EP III comes around because this will be answered.

    But, that being said. Here's a new scenerio my sister actually thought up last night that I think is highly plausible.

    Anakin will know Padme is pregnant. Somewhere along the line, he starts falling deeper and deeper into the dark side. He duels w/ OBi-Wan, he's about to become Palpatines pawn. But his love for his wife and unborn child holds him back, they are his salvation.

    Palpatine lies to him, tells him Obi-Wan and Padme are dead. The Jedi allowed her to be killed on Naboo (which you know will be destroyed by the Trade Federation- he'll point to Dooku being the head of the whole takeover on the planet, Anakin will kill him in rage.) Anakin's pain over loosing his wife and child will finally send him COMPLETELY over the deep end. He failed his mother, and he failed his wife and child. His destiny is sealed.

    IF he thinks his child is dead, he'd never have any reason to seek out the child. Guilt would keep Anakin away from Tatooine forever. It's only after Luke blows up the Death Star that he learns the name of this hero and that Vader becomes obsessed with finding Luke.

    Luke's last name will be Padme's idea. It will be her gift to him, in her son she will see Anakin, and his name is the only thing she can give him. Luke will have no parents, be orphaned if you will, his name will be his only link to his past. Padme and Obi-Wan will gloss over Anakin's history, and all the rosy colored things Obi-Wan tells Luke are there help ease Luke towards the awful truth. Luke must love the memory of his good father, in order to be able to connect with him under all that metal and hate.
  3. Darv_Thader

    Darv_Thader Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 29, 2002
    About the Droids memormy wipe...

    I think 3P0 will be wiped by R2 will not.

    In addition to the points above (R2 knows that he was owned by Kenobi, he knows exactly where he lives on tatooine, etc.), one has to remember that Lucas treats these droids as the Rosencrantz and Gildenstern of Star Wars (read Hamlet if you don't understand this). They are two ever-present, minor characters that observe all the action but everyone else ignores. As argued also above, Droids are machinery and they are almost wholesaley ignored.

    A stronger argument (which is not originally my own - I read it on another thread that I lost track of) is that Lucas has said, in addition to being the RC&GS of Star Wars, are psychological constructions. That is, 3P0 is the Conscious and R2 the Subconscious. One is a yammering, foolish, foppish, confused moron (which is why you may want to wipe his memory just in case) and the other is much-smarter but a heck-of-a-lot more difficult to understand and interpret. It would make sense that the subconscious knows and understands everything that is going on while it must slowly unfold (like the story) to the Conscious mind.

    Just a few thoughts, not all my own, but I have not seen them all in one place previously.
  4. portmaster1000

    portmaster1000 Jedi Youngling

    Jun 10, 2002
    How about this for a plot twist:

    Padme is an agent for Sidious!

    Crazy? Yeah, probably but here is a weak argument:

    1) By her actions and her dress she is trying to seduce Anakin. She takes him to a secluded beach house for romantic picnics and very close fire-side chats all while dressing the part of a temptress.

    2) She knows that Anakin had a crush on her 10 years ago and Sidious conveniently arranges Obi Wan, who has Anakin taggin along, to protect her so she can start her devious plans. She plays the part of "bait" so the next "attempt" on her life can take place. She covers the cameras for three reasons, it assures no one will see the assassin droid hovering at the window, increases the possibility of Anakin rescuing her sinse only a Jedi can sense what would be happening in the room and lastly to be able to restrict R2's alarm system in some fashion. This failed attempt leads to Sidious having a hand in Anakin getting the assignment to protect Padme on Naboo. Which gets them alone so she can "work her mojo" and leads to the seduction in number 1.

    3) It would explain the wooden lines she delivers during the romance sections. To us they seem insincere but to the love-stricken Anakin they are exactly what he needs to her to make him more deeply care for her. She's playing him for the fool and the words she uses are flat and tired romantic garbage that she knows Anakin will eat up.

    4) During the scene which Anakin tells her about his slaughter of the Sand People, she actually looks pleased. Perhaps the whole thing has unfolded via some behind-the-scenes plan?

    5) She basically leads him to Genosa(sp) not for a plot modivator so everyone would be back together for the final battle but so his capture will start some conflict and hatred of Dooku. Her faked fall from the transport gives Anakin some rage when facing Dooku that she hopes will lead him more quickly to the Darkside.

    6) She knows and even states that a relationship between them would destroy his relationship with the Jedi. At the end of the movie we have her successful seduction coming to the climax with their secret ceremony on Naboo, thus taking Anakin a crucial step away from the Jedi.

    No, I don't abide by this theory as I can't resolve her pregnancy and the whole secret of the kids but it makes me think that Padme is being influenced by Sidious in more ways than him just pushing her and Anakin together. He could be controlling her in some fashion.

  5. Clone434

    Clone434 Jedi Youngling

    May 23, 2002

    I'll give you credit for creativity, but there's no way this will happen.

    No, I would chalk it up to passive catholic-style misogynism: the world is screwed up because the woman screwed it up. Christianity doesn't allow for female characters who actually do anything proactive. And neither does Lucas. What with the virgin births, etc. women can't even take credit for what they create...
  6. JarJarFett

    JarJarFett Jedi Youngling

    Jun 19, 2002
    PadmeLeaiaJaina is on the right track, but I still think Anakin knew about Luke. Why else would he ask Obi-Wan to give him his light saber? Of course, he could have given him the light saber and THEN been told that Padme and all were dead.
    But I still think Padme dies in Ep. III. Leia remembers her only vaguely, which means she must have died when she was very young (probably no more than 2-3). I'm sure it would take something monumental like Padme's real death to drive Anakin to the dark side. If Palpatine lied to Anakin about the death of her and his child, wouldn't Vader be supper-pissed at the Emperor once he realized Luke was alive?
  7. Darth_T-Bone

    Darth_T-Bone Jedi Youngling

    Jun 20, 2002
    Vader didn't know about *either* of his children. Check out the entry for Darth Vader on the official site databank:

    "At the time of his transformation, Vader never knew he was due to be the father of twins. Obi-Wan Kenobi hid the children from the Dark Lord and Vader's master, Emperor Palpatine. Vader somehow discovered that he had a son, Luke Skywalker, but never suspected he had a daughter, Leia, who was secretly taken to be raised by Bail Organa, Viceroy and First Chairman of Alderaan."

    In the EU, he finds about Luke as follows:
    "[Vader] tortured a Rebel pilot that led him to discover the identity of the Death Star's killer, Luke Skywalker."

    Since Vader was unaware of Luke's existence, Tatooine is a perfect hide-out -- Obi-Wan knew it was the one planet Vader would probably never go back to.

  8. Anakin_Ackbar

    Anakin_Ackbar Jedi Youngling

    Jun 14, 2002
    Logically it is probably correct to conclude that Vader never knew he had a son, but I prefer to believe that he did, because themeatically it works better. Think about it, For all of the time that Vader is "more machine now than man" his knowledge of his offspring could have kept that small part of Anakin alive and burning.
    My personal theory (which I'm just now making up) is that Palpatine knew of both children ("the emperor new if Anakin were to have any offspring they would be a threat to him") but not where/who they were.
    Vader on the other knew of his son before ANH, but possibly not of Luke's involvement at the time. We discovered in ROTJ that Vader was able to sense things about his family that Palpy was not. It's possible that as soon as Vader knew of his children (if he didn't always know),he hid his knowledge from Palpy becasue he was already considering overthrowing him with his son's help. Palpy of course had his own designs and once Luke came out of the woodwork, the need for secrecy was past.
    Wow, that's a little too much thought for this stuff.
    Anyway, think about the potential power of Ep. III if we can see Anakin's love for his whole family (born or still in Padme's oven) knowing that he will never see that hapinees again in his life.....
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