Explanation wanted: what's the deal with Gary Kurtz?

All I know about Gary Kurtz is that he produced one of Lucas's early films, as well as the first two Star Wars films. Why wasn;t he involved in making Jedi, what did he think of that film, and why is he so bitter and critical of the Prequels?

The only opinions I know of from the fan side, is that the bashers look to Kurtz for vindication of their often hateful opinions, and that the fans of the Prequels villify Kurtz as being beneath contempt for his bitterness.

All I want, as a neutral observer who doesn't actually know anything about this, is some clarity on the situation, preferably in non-over-the-top explantions by both sides.

-JDR.

 

I don't know a whole lot about the behind the scenes happenings of Gary Kurtz. That's just a bunch of drama that doesn't concern me. I'm about the films. I'd suspect that it's not as dramatic as some people say it is.

To find an objective person would be hard to find on a message board like this (as I'm sure you're aware of). The fact is, no one knows the real story about what happened besides the people directly involved in the situation.

Mostly people are accepting of his him because it supports their feelings. Vice versa, people hate him because it doesn't support their opinion.

Despite all of that, maybe some objective person can say a bit of what happened in order to give you some info.

 

Kurtz had his own idea of how the Star Wars Trilogy (as it was planned then) should turn out, Lucas had a different vision.

They clashed due to this, and when ESB went over-budget and over-schedule, Lucas ditched him and went with a different producer (Kajistan (sp?) for ROTJ and McCallum for the PT).

Unsurprisingly, Kurtz dislikes ROTJ, TPM and AOTC because they aren't the way he wanted them.

It's a mixture of creative differences and the fact that he really didn't do a great job as a producer on ESB. Getting a film made on time and inside budget is the number one priority for a producer, and Kurtz didn't do that.

 

There are 3 biographies of Lucas:
Skywalking by Dale Pollock
Empire Building by Garry Jenkins
George Lucas by John Baxter

reading those will give you some idea of what happened, altho Lucas says the Pollock book is rubbish.
Basically they disagreed on the story for ROTJ, Leia was NOT the "other" that Yoda reffered to in ESB, the other would've been a new character and the ending was not supposed to tie everything up as it did.

Some fans have turned against Kurtz because they've read interviews with him where he criticises ROTJ and TPM. But I've met Kurtz a few times and I am enormously impressed by him, if you ask him a question he gives you an honest answer, he doesn't have any ill feeling towards Lucas, and he's so un-Hollywood; he never talks bull****.
When Lucas was dveloping SW he was the one who stayed with it, Kurtz was the one who managed to keep things going.

The only people who have said a bad word about Gary Kurtz are some of the fans I mentioned above, but what do they expect him to say when he's asked his opinion? Some fans just won't stand for any criticism of anything Lucas does, it's just silly.

gez

 

What I have heard is that Lucas fired Kurtz because he was an incompetent producer, and because Kurtz had a penchant for telling him how the story should go. Kurtz, for instance, violently opposed making Vader Luke's father.

He did the same thing to Jim Henson on the set of "Dark Crystal," which led Henson to vow he'd never work with Kurtz again, and to consider removing Kurtz's name from the credits as producer.

Since then Kurtz has given several interviews in which he has criticized ROTJ and the prequels and said they have no depth. He said that Lucas is surrounded by yes-men. He also said that Lucas hired Marquand as a director for ROTJ because he was a malleable puppet, unlike Kershner, and that Lucas thought up the "Leia is Luke's sister" plot twist on the set, at the last moment, simply because he needed an impetus for Luke to go postal on Vader.

Looking at those last three statements, one has to wonder how Kurtz could possibly know a) that Lucas is surrounded by yes-men, as he has no idea what goes on behind the scenes; b) Lucas's reasons for choosing Marquand, because Lucas had fired Kurtz before he began looking at directors for ROTJ (and also, Kershner himself has said he was asked back); and c) that Lucas thought up the Leia is Luke's sister plot twist "on the set of ROTJ" because Kurtz wasn't anywhere near the set of ROTJ.

But anyway. Bashers consider him their messiah and point to several yellow-journalism books to prove that he's the real genius behind the OT. I consider him an embittered has-been who should concentrate on his own career instead of dissing Lucas -- maybe then he'd actually have a career.

 

Shelley -

Where did you read that Lucas fired Kurtz? I have never come across anything to support that. And where did you read that Kurtz was violently opposed to Vader being Luke's father? I've never seen this either.

And most importantly where did you read that Henson vowed never to work with Kurtz again etc. That's a pretty strong statement. You really need to back that up.

Finally - you're wrong about Kurtz not being on the set of ROTJ, he was. I can prove it, if you look in the Official Collector's Edition of ROTJ there are several photos credited to Gary Kurtz. He was on the set.

gez

 

I don't hate the guy, and I don't know about all the Henson stuff and so on, but he failed in his role as producer on ESB and that got him fired.

That's the long and the short of it.
Everything else is just opinion.

 

I started a similar thread a few months ago (but can't find it now for some reason) that turned into Rick McCallum bashing. Kurtz produced American Graffiti, Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back. As there are some fans who only like ANH and ESB, Kurtz has developed a cult following among bashers.

From what I gathered from that thread, Lucas and Kurtz had creative differences about the direction of Star Wars. Also, Lucas apparently thought Kurtz did a bad job with ESB in terms of going over-budget. Star Wars is, ultimately, Lucas' creation, and they parted ways. It happens all the time.

 

I have PM'd Shelley and asked her if she will reply to my previous post, she says she won't. So I can only assume that she has no proof of the statements she has made about Lucas, Henson and Kurtz, see her post above dated 4/12 2:54pm.

Shelley - if you won't provide proof (particularly in regard to what you claim Henson said about Kurtz) then people are likely to think that you just like spreading baseless rumors, and worse - that you misrepresent George Lucas and Jim Henson in an attempt to give credibility to your nasty opinions.

Example : if I say "Alan Smithee is a terrible director", that's my opinion, but if I say "Shelley says he's a terrible director" then I'd better have some proof that she said it, and if I don't I should at least amend my remarks so that people know it's a rumor.

People are free to air their own opinions and
I don't mind if people want to 'bash', but this is the worst kind of 'bashing'.

 

Fair enough, but this is a message board...not some kind of judicial hearing...

 

Exactly. About 80% of what is posted here is merely speculation and opinion anyway.

 

That's exactly it. It's all "what I have heard" and other speculation, and people will believe what they want to believe, based on their own biases. We all have them, even, or should I say especially, those who claim they don't.

 

gezvader28- I agree totally with everything you have said. When you make statement like that I don't think providing proof [linking, quotes, or whatever] is totally unreasonable. That was a good post you made. Well thought out and responded to all of the points made. Very good.

 

Uh...are you being serious or sarcastic...?

 

Well the guy has talent. What's his beef? He's not a billionaire, and Lucas is.

 

An Interview with Gary Kurtz

As someone else said, he doesn't talk bull****. He calls it like it is. There's no bitterness towards George; he directly points out the good and the bad about him.

And despite what some people would have you believe, George did not fire him. They agreed it was best to go their separate ways.