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"Faith in your apprentice, misplaced may be"

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by _Sublime_Skywalker_, May 9, 2007.

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  1. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 8, 2004
    What exactly does Yoda mean when he says this?

    Is he telling Sidious to not be so confident in the sith? Does yoda mean that even though the darkside can make you stronger, but you lose your humanity and therefore most of your judgement and become weaker? Or does Yoda secretly know whats about to happen to Vader?

    I assumed he meant it because Yoda was still under the impression that He and Obi Wan were still capable of defeating the sith and that he assumed Vader would be killed?

    Or did he just mean that the lightside always conquers the darkside.

    Opinionate!
     
  2. Rossa83

    Rossa83 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Sep 8, 2005
    I think the explicit meaning of it was:
    My friend is over rectifying that mistake as we speak - and I'm fairly sure that OBW will win it. I wonder why Yoda was so sure OBW would defeat Anakin though...[face_thinking]

    But yeah, that is a great line, and it probably has multiple meanings. I'll come back to ya when I have some more time and thoughts;)
     
  3. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 27, 2000
    I took it as Yoda still believes that there is good in Anakin, like Luke did.
     
  4. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Nah. He understood just how dumb Skywalker was. Yoda also knew that all of the crappy advice he had given Skywalker would pay off if the midichlorian-boy ever jumped the Jedi ship. To cover his arse, he made sure Skywalker would fail as a Jedi and as a Sith. He never wanted Anakin to be a Jedi anyways, so it was more like: "Here Palpy, you take him. That emotionally unstable bastard is your problem now." :p
     
  5. halibut

    halibut Ex-Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 27, 2000
    Maybe, if Yoda had laughed like Mutley after he said the line :p
     
  6. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    [face_laugh]

    Or the Jedi version of Palpatine's cackle!
     
  7. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005
    Aside from the literal meaning (Yoda is telling Palpidious he might be overestimating Vader's abilities), I think this could be an allusion to ROTJ. Yoda cautions Palpidious about getting too attached to the idea that Anakin is unquestionably loyal. And think of the wording of those lines in ROTJ: "Your overconfidence is your weakness." / "Your faith in your friends is yours!"
     
  8. Master_Starwalker

    Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 20, 2003
    I think that specific line meant that he felt Obi-Wan could defeat Vader. I do think there's that Yoda believes(and correctly as we see) that the Light Side is always triumphant at the end, given that he tells Sidious that his faith in the Dark Side is misplaced. There may very well be the RotJ connection that Cryo mentioned as well.
     
  9. Juggernaut86

    Juggernaut86 Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Apr 7, 2005
    Yea this is a good line..
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Yoda is hinting that Vader may not live much longer, as he estimates that Obi-wan has probably found him by now. And he also tells him, that the dark side will not be enough to win this fight. What Yoda doesn't realize is that he's only half right.
     
  11. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    Yoda knew what a great match up Obiwan was for Anakin. Due to their thousands of hours in engaging in lightsaber duels, Obiwan knew Anakin's skills and style like none other. Even though Obiwan was inferior to Anakin powerwise, he was not an inferior opponent.

    Or it could have been simple rhetoric. A little jawing back and forth between the two Masters.
     
  12. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head

    Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Nov 18, 2004
    Excellent post. Everyone has given some great answers. This statment has always been a bit strange to me. I just assumed Yoda was warning Sidious that the Jedi placed their faith in Anakin/Prophecy and look what happened. However after reading the other ideas here I see I was way off.
    :confused:
     
  13. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    I had a feeling it was somewhat tied into the throne room duel aswell. I mean Palpataine/Sidious/The emporer is a very cocky guy. Kinda like the kid saying 'nah nah nah nah' and pointing their finger at you.

    But I wonder if he means the faith is misplaced in Vader's potential or his loyalty.
     
  14. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head

    Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Youngling star 2

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    Nov 18, 2004
    I think you've got it there: ...in Vader's potential and loyalty.
     
  15. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Yoda was talking to the fans as much as he was to Sidious. [face_beatup]
    Maybe he was reminding us that Vader was actually a lacky in the OT. :p

    ***


    Bingo.
     
  16. LordVader66

    LordVader66 Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Aug 30, 2005
    I don't think it had anything to do with Vader's loyalty or potential. Vader's potential was a fact and could not be disputed. And Yoda thought Anakin was gone forever when he said, "the boy you trained, gone is he is, consumed by Darth Vader". The statement is more reflective of Yoda's faith in Obiwan as a weapon of light against Vader's hate and anger.
     
  17. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005
    Yoda doesn't realise the extra meaning, perhaps. This is one thing that separates the other characters from Palps / Sids who DOES speak in layered rhythms.
     
  18. G-FETT

    G-FETT Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    I agree. Yoda literally means Obi-Wan may defeat Vader.

    But the metaphorical meaning is that one day Anakin the Jedi will return and conquer Vader. Throughout the PT there are lines like this, that have a literal meaning, but that also work on a much more important level of metaphor.

    Another line is this one;

    "The thought of not being with you.... I can't breeth."
     
  19. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    "See through you, we can." -- The Jedi can see through Anakin, just as we can see through Threepio

    "We are sure her heart goes with you." -- Padme's heart goes with Anakin after death

    "Quiet as a tomb." -- The mask slides in place and everything is quiet as a tomb

    "Anakin, come closer." -- Anakin comes closer to his Dark Side and becomes Darth Vader (it's also good advice for defeating Vader: Anakin comes closer and "returns")

    I can barely think of a single PT line that doesn't allude to the future in some way. That's why the PT was made to be dependent on the OT and things weren't explained to the audience all over again (though, from a certain POV, they were)

    In the case of this line, an exchange between Anakin and Palpatine in AOTC reveals all:

    "I foresee you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, even more powerful than Master Yoda." -- Indeed, when Anakin kills Sidious and balances the Force, this is exactly what happens
     
  20. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Oct 23, 2003
    Qui-Gon turned the whole saga on its ear when he told young Kenobi to keep his mind on the present. Their exchange of dialogue told us everything we really needed to know about AnaVader's downfall.
     
  21. MOC Vober Dand

    MOC Vober Dand Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 6, 2004
    It was a cool line and every good gunffight needs some cool lines.

    Seriously though, I agree with the above. Yoda was confident that Obiwn would be better at putting things aside and dealing with the business at hand than Anakin would. And he was right.
     
  22. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 20, 2005
    Also:

    "Be mindful of the living Force" = Be mindful of Anakin
     
  23. Veloz

    Veloz Jedi Master star 6

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    Aug 30, 2004
    I agree with u here.

    The Sith turn on each other, and i'm sure Yoda knew his history. It was indeed Palpatine's faith in Vader in ROTJ that allowed him to be destroyed. As much as Sidiou's forsees many things, he didnt see that one coming then ;)
     
  24. _Sublime_Skywalker_

    _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master star 4

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    May 8, 2004
    I was never one for the theory of them believing Anakin is still alive. Obviously by the way they coax Luke to destroy Vader they just want the sith over and done with, by any means necessary.Plus Bens speech of Anakin being killed by Vader at the beginning of ANH.

    Is there anything in the prophecy that says the chosen can't be destroyed until the balance is put in place?
     
  25. Juggernaut86

    Juggernaut86 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Tell this to the people that say that Obi never attempted to kill Vader in ANH and say that it wouldnt of been significant hahahah
     
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