"Faith in your apprentice, misplaced may be"

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by _Sublime_Skywalker_, May 9, 2007.

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  1. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    What exactly does Yoda mean when he says this?

    Is he telling Sidious to not be so confident in the sith? Does yoda mean that even though the darkside can make you stronger, but you lose your humanity and therefore most of your judgement and become weaker? Or does Yoda secretly know whats about to happen to Vader?

    I assumed he meant it because Yoda was still under the impression that He and Obi Wan were still capable of defeating the sith and that he assumed Vader would be killed?

    Or did he just mean that the lightside always conquers the darkside.

    Opinionate!
  2. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think the explicit meaning of it was:
    My friend is over rectifying that mistake as we speak - and I'm fairly sure that OBW will win it. I wonder why Yoda was so sure OBW would defeat Anakin though...[face_thinking]

    But yeah, that is a great line, and it probably has multiple meanings. I'll come back to ya when I have some more time and thoughts;)
  3. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I took it as Yoda still believes that there is good in Anakin, like Luke did.
  4. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Nah. He understood just how dumb Skywalker was. Yoda also knew that all of the crappy advice he had given Skywalker would pay off if the midichlorian-boy ever jumped the Jedi ship. To cover his arse, he made sure Skywalker would fail as a Jedi and as a Sith. He never wanted Anakin to be a Jedi anyways, so it was more like: "Here Palpy, you take him. That emotionally unstable bastard is your problem now." :p
  5. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Maybe, if Yoda had laughed like Mutley after he said the line :p
  6. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    [face_laugh]

    Or the Jedi version of Palpatine's cackle!
  7. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Aside from the literal meaning (Yoda is telling Palpidious he might be overestimating Vader's abilities), I think this could be an allusion to ROTJ. Yoda cautions Palpidious about getting too attached to the idea that Anakin is unquestionably loyal. And think of the wording of those lines in ROTJ: "Your overconfidence is your weakness." / "Your faith in your friends is yours!"
  8. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I think that specific line meant that he felt Obi-Wan could defeat Vader. I do think there's that Yoda believes(and correctly as we see) that the Light Side is always triumphant at the end, given that he tells Sidious that his faith in the Dark Side is misplaced. There may very well be the RotJ connection that Cryo mentioned as well.
  9. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Yea this is a good line..
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Yoda is hinting that Vader may not live much longer, as he estimates that Obi-wan has probably found him by now. And he also tells him, that the dark side will not be enough to win this fight. What Yoda doesn't realize is that he's only half right.
  11. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda knew what a great match up Obiwan was for Anakin. Due to their thousands of hours in engaging in lightsaber duels, Obiwan knew Anakin's skills and style like none other. Even though Obiwan was inferior to Anakin powerwise, he was not an inferior opponent.

    Or it could have been simple rhetoric. A little jawing back and forth between the two Masters.
  12. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2004
    star 2
    Excellent post. Everyone has given some great answers. This statment has always been a bit strange to me. I just assumed Yoda was warning Sidious that the Jedi placed their faith in Anakin/Prophecy and look what happened. However after reading the other ideas here I see I was way off.
    :confused:
  13. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    I had a feeling it was somewhat tied into the throne room duel aswell. I mean Palpataine/Sidious/The emporer is a very cocky guy. Kinda like the kid saying 'nah nah nah nah' and pointing their finger at you.

    But I wonder if he means the faith is misplaced in Vader's potential or his loyalty.
  14. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2004
    star 2
    I think you've got it there: ...in Vader's potential and loyalty.
  15. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Yoda was talking to the fans as much as he was to Sidious. [face_beatup]
    Maybe he was reminding us that Vader was actually a lacky in the OT. :p

    ***


    Bingo.
  16. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    I don't think it had anything to do with Vader's loyalty or potential. Vader's potential was a fact and could not be disputed. And Yoda thought Anakin was gone forever when he said, "the boy you trained, gone is he is, consumed by Darth Vader". The statement is more reflective of Yoda's faith in Obiwan as a weapon of light against Vader's hate and anger.
  17. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda doesn't realise the extra meaning, perhaps. This is one thing that separates the other characters from Palps / Sids who DOES speak in layered rhythms.
  18. G-FETT Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    I agree. Yoda literally means Obi-Wan may defeat Vader.

    But the metaphorical meaning is that one day Anakin the Jedi will return and conquer Vader. Throughout the PT there are lines like this, that have a literal meaning, but that also work on a much more important level of metaphor.

    Another line is this one;

    "The thought of not being with you.... I can't breeth."
  19. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    "See through you, we can." -- The Jedi can see through Anakin, just as we can see through Threepio

    "We are sure her heart goes with you." -- Padme's heart goes with Anakin after death

    "Quiet as a tomb." -- The mask slides in place and everything is quiet as a tomb

    "Anakin, come closer." -- Anakin comes closer to his Dark Side and becomes Darth Vader (it's also good advice for defeating Vader: Anakin comes closer and "returns")

    I can barely think of a single PT line that doesn't allude to the future in some way. That's why the PT was made to be dependent on the OT and things weren't explained to the audience all over again (though, from a certain POV, they were)

    In the case of this line, an exchange between Anakin and Palpatine in AOTC reveals all:

    "I foresee you becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, even more powerful than Master Yoda." -- Indeed, when Anakin kills Sidious and balances the Force, this is exactly what happens
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Qui-Gon turned the whole saga on its ear when he told young Kenobi to keep his mind on the present. Their exchange of dialogue told us everything we really needed to know about AnaVader's downfall.
  21. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    It was a cool line and every good gunffight needs some cool lines.

    Seriously though, I agree with the above. Yoda was confident that Obiwn would be better at putting things aside and dealing with the business at hand than Anakin would. And he was right.
  22. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    Also:

    "Be mindful of the living Force" = Be mindful of Anakin
  23. Veloz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2004
    star 6
    I agree with u here.

    The Sith turn on each other, and i'm sure Yoda knew his history. It was indeed Palpatine's faith in Vader in ROTJ that allowed him to be destroyed. As much as Sidiou's forsees many things, he didnt see that one coming then ;)
  24. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    I was never one for the theory of them believing Anakin is still alive. Obviously by the way they coax Luke to destroy Vader they just want the sith over and done with, by any means necessary.Plus Bens speech of Anakin being killed by Vader at the beginning of ANH.

    Is there anything in the prophecy that says the chosen can't be destroyed until the balance is put in place?
  25. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Tell this to the people that say that Obi never attempted to kill Vader in ANH and say that it wouldnt of been significant hahahah
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