"Faith in your apprentice, misplaced may be"

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by _Sublime_Skywalker_, May 9, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Darth Bane summed it up nicely:

    "Honor is for the living. Dead is dead."
  2. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Hmmm, I took that line as meaning Palpatine was misguided in placing his faith in another Sith.

    The Sith were traitorous opportunists, and Yoda knew lies and deceit were their way, so for Palpatine to have faith in someone who's MO is to lie is to be foolish. Considering that the apprentice usually ends up conspiring against the master, it's not wise to place one's faith in such an apprentice.
  3. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Maybe. But I think you have to consider what came before - "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us".

    Yoda knows "Anakin". He knows he lacks control and is inexperienced. He believes Kenobi can beat him. And due to this, Sidious faith in his apprentice and the Dark Side is misplaced. Because for all its superiority in physical power - it has the huge flaw of both arrogance and in ensuring that its users are "quick to anger". The Dark Side always leads to your undoing.
  4. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    But it's also Vader were talking about. Before mustafar injuries, Anakin/Vader was all ready to go kill Sidious as soon as he found out the secret to immortality. However, after his injuries and the death of Padme[ which we'll never know if it was foreseen or not ] Vader lacks confidence and stays loyal to the Emporer. He still believes that theres more to learn and therefore keeps him around. Only when Luke shows up does he realize that its the perfect opportunity to finally rule himself.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Indeed. This is why Yoda says that the dark side is not stronger than the light, because the light relies on patience and teamwork. There is no ego and no place for arrogance. Anger is not even a factor. That's why Yoda was confident in his ability to defeat Sidious on his own and Obi-wan being able to deal with Anakin.
  6. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    And the jedi didnt have an ego and werent arrogant lol

    That only applies to Qui Gon, Obi Wan, and Luke

    The Council was blantly arrogant when Qui Gon informed them that he fought someone trained in the jedi arts (which gave him extreme fatigue)..and they just sent a padawan and an jedi master...no one even knew if that was the sith master...very arrogant

    Or Obi Wans advice to the Council about Anakin

    Sith show arrogance in their abilities

    Jedi show arrogance in their knowledge
  7. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    And the jedi didnt have an ego and werent arrogant lol

    That only applies to Qui Gon, Obi Wan, and Luke



    I find that very hard to believe. I think that most of the characters . . . at one time or the other were guilty of harboring an ego and arrogance. Yoda included. And in the end, Yoda was wrong about Anakin.
  8. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Yes, the line is clearly a reference to Anakin. Like "A Hero Lost", which refers solely to Anakin. If people want to write in their own thematic interpretations of dialogue, that's fine, but not everything has a multifaceted, multihued meaning.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I never said that the Jedi weren't arrogant by the time of the prequels. I'm saying that in their day, before the dark times, they weren't arrogant. Arrogance seeped in and that's what had hurt them.
  10. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    [face_laugh][face_laugh][face_laugh]

    So by that logic, if Anakin did what a better fighter would have done, I would just say that Obi-wan "should of" won if Anakin only did a jump.

    Woulda coulda shoulda 8-}

  11. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    At the end of the day potential counts for nothing. You're remembered for how you actually perform when the heat goes on.

    Please excue my dreadful Mustafar pun.:rolleyes:
  12. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    Sidious's faith in Anakin was indeed misplaced. I don't know how Yoda knew this, but I think he was kind of telling Palpatine not to don't count your chickens before they hatch, because Vader is capable of being destoryed before he reaches his full power.
  13. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    But all in all, he didn't. Infact he stayed alive while his potential seemed to go down.

    Sith are known to be unloyal, they turn on eachother. But it seemed for the 20 years Vader never had the backbone to turn on his master, or maybe just not the motivation...
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Vader needed to learn everything necessary to turn on Sidious, but he also needed someone worthy of being his Apprentice.
  15. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    I also think Vader realised that he wouldn't have the first clue as to how to tun a Galaxy.

    He had a good aptitude for making droids (odd ones none the less) and fiddling with gadgets in general, but he was not cunning, or intelligent in the way needed to truly rule - truly become a Master.

  16. _Sublime_Skywalker_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2004
    star 4
    Yet if we count EU, in the alternate ending of the ROTS game he kills Sidious straight up and declares himself the ruler of the Empire.

    and even in the movie, Vader says to Padme he just needs to learn a few more things from him and then, like a real sith, he'll destroy Palpataine and take his place on the throne and then they can finally rule the galaxy, make things the way they want them.

    In AOTC Anakin makes it quite clear that he already has a system laid out for the galaxy, and that if he could rule it he would. Whether it's a boyish dream or lines to impress Padme, we'll never fully know.
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    While for some reason the clones with Sidious just stand there like wooden Indians. [face_talk_hand]
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The alternate ending is just that. But when Anakin says that they can rule together, he'd rely on her experience as a Queen to handle the political areas that he cannot.
  19. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2004
    star 2
    I thought he said, "...of course not me" or something to that effect.(?)
    Just curious.
  20. GrandWarlord Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2003
    star 2
    I alway's just figured that Yoda always knew Anakin was conflicted. And when he spoke this line to Sidious I think he was just saying to Sidious "Don't get to big for your britches" kind of thing. Telling Sidious that he wasn't perfect, and neither was Anakin. And that Sidious didn't know everything like he acted he did.

    As far as Anakin running the galaxy, In my opinion I think he realized deep down he couldn't really run the galaxy. When he was talking to Padme about how the galaxy should be ran, he said "Of Course not me. Somebody Wise" I always thought, in his mind, he was thinking of Palpatine since they where kinda close, and he respected Palpatine. He always thought highly of Palpatine, of course since Palp's told Anakin what he wanted to hear most of the time. And I think he realized he couldn't beat Palpatine, who was much stronger in the ways of the darkside.

    The ending of that game mentioned above, was a "what if this happened?" kind of thing. I actually laughed when I seen it the first time, but thought it was cool just the same.
  21. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6

    Yeah, but at the time he didn't know Palpatine was a Sith. He didn't know the dark side. He knew that he had to obtain more power if he were to turn on Sidious. I think Vader would have been a great Emperor, more so than Palpy, but it wasn't meant to be. The way he let his anger get the best of him on Mustafar when facing Obi-Wan showed that he wasn't wise enough to rule the galaxy or even run an Empire. He was better as a lackey.
Moderators: Bazinga'd
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.