Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by Suzuki_Akira, Sep 28, 2006.
You're a gigantic nerd shurron.
Congrats. And you're going down in the SFD.
Congrats good win!
Yeah, you should see the looks on people's faces when they find out what an awesomely huge nerd I am underneath my thin candy shell. Always priceless. I'm teh bestest nerd ever. And yeah, we'll see about that whole SFD thingy.
nice work, wang.
i always knew you had it in ya.
congrats on winning the triple crown of nerdom
'bout dang time, Wangalicious.
Wow I miss out on a draft and you guys let Wang win it? Pretty weak.
Alright guys, I've thought some things over for the past few days about where we are and where I'd like us to go. I've discussed a few things with Inty and we've agreed that some of the changes need to be discussed with your opinions involved.
1) I'd like for the GM pool to be increased to 16 in a single conference. This one is gong to be discussed by the mods and then we'll find out what they think.
2) If we are allowed 16 GMs to participate, I would like to increase the number of fighters on each team to 8. If we are told to keep the GM pool at 12, then I would like to increase team fighters to 10. This would give us a total of 128 or 120 fighters total in the competition. I believe this would increase discussion and improve on originality. There's a lot of worthy fighters out there that don't get a shot on any teams because we only have six fighters on each team.
3) I'd like to introduce prep time into the Jedi Draft. There are a number of guys who would benefit from it and it would also improve discussion and put a fresh spin on things. Each team would have two characters that may be prepped for each round, and using a prep on a trump uses both of your preps for that round. If you guys need a more thorough explanation of what a prep is, I'll go into it in further detail when I have more time but a few of the others drafts use it to nice effect. I think we'd gain significantly by adding it to the game.
Number one is going to happen if the mods give us the go ahead, and I'd really like to see two and three implemented as well but that's for everyone to give their opinion on. If anyone else has anything else to add, this is the time and place to do it
I'm all about more selections per team, but prep time = bad idea for the JD. I mean, really, are we going to start judging prepped Jedi with blasters and other stuff now? What happens when it's a team battle and everyone's prepped? Do we judge a bunch of Jedi and Sith as though they'll be lobbing thermal detonators at eachother?
Not that team battles shouldn't be judged as though the teams are prepped, though. But just things like each team knowing who's on the other side that they'll be facing and just some time to get a general strategy together and such. This guy takes this guy and maybe that guy takes these two, or whatever.
"ZOMG! Jerec plants hundreds of explosives around the arena with his prep and presses a button the instant the match starts and blows up that stupid Luke/Yoda trump! Jerec wins!"
Just... no thanks on the prep. It works in the other drafts for different reasons, but it doesn't belong here.
EDIT: And 16 in a single conference? You mean like 32 total? Last time that was tried it turned out to be a pretty ugly move.
No, just 16 teams total. I want to get more of the obscure fighters drafted and into the discussion, but I don't have the time to go to two conferences with some insane amount of GMs. It's been done successfully in the past, but right now I can't do it...
As for the prep time, I wasn't thinking in terms of a lot of additional weapons being involved unless there's a precendent for it in their EU experiences (Yoda prepped wouldn't have a blaster, but Kyle Katarn or Revan would have plenty of options). What I was thinking was the use of special abilities and such that don't always get utilized before a match can begin. Mace Windu would have a chance to use his shatterpoint ability, Obi-Wan may or may not have his mind meld available, and each prepped character would know the strengths and weaknesses of their opponent. I was thinking of it more on a mental scale than a physical one with a bunch of weapons brought in.
It would make certain characters less invincible in a way that is otherwise impossible. I think a possible matchup between an unprepped Luke Skywalker and a prepped Darth Sidious would lead to one helluva debate on who the victor would be. Not because of Sidious' martial might, but because of his excellent planning and ability to exploit weaknesses. I don't see it as any less possible than in the other drafts personally.
And teams wouldn't be judged any differently than they are now. Each team would have a bit of time to come up with a strategy but there wouldn't be any additional weapons brought in or anything because it would get to be too much.
I guess I'm kind of sick of the same guys being unbeatable and this is a way to breathe some fresh air into some tired matchups. It would increase participation as well, IMO.
I'm still pretty wary of the whole idea, but that's a better way to look at it, I guess. I still vote a tentative no, personally. I really am a huge supporter of the additional selections per team, though. Always have been. And now, with even more names popping up to be added, and certain other picks getting more and more draftable lately, it could work out great. It worked out all right in the BCJD when we experimented with it, and it could only go better this time with more names to choose from.
And I see what you mean, I think. 16 GM in a single conference, all drafting from the same pool, right? Hey, works for me. Talk about needing a good picking strategy. That'd be absolutely brutal... I love it!
I don't fault you for not being sure of the idea, change is always different and possibly troublesome. We just have to decide if the risks outweigh the benefits or not.
Yeah, you were right with the 16 GM in a single conference picking from the same pool of fighters. If we are given the go ahead for 16 teams then each team could pick eight, and if we stay at 12 teams than each squad will pick ten fighters. I counted 145 fighters on the draft board this last time around, so that would mean 128 or 120 of them would be drafted which is what I'm aiming for.
I'm also open to additions to the Draft list if you guys have them. There's quite a few from Path of Destruction I'll be adding and I'm open to the idea of Grievous being thrown into the mix...
I like the idea. Now would all the fighters get to fight, or would some site out?
All of them would fight individually and in team matches.
I haven't actually participated in any of these, but I've lurked, and I personally don't like the prep thing. In the other drafts, I thought the main reason for prep was bringing useful items. And for great military heads to be able to plot out how to use those extra items. I'm just not sure how the prep would be judged, and how much better someone would be with that prep. I mean, the blasters would be completely useless, would they not? And if we got into the entire mine thing, couldn't absolutely any jedi/sith get their hands on those types of explosives. I think in the other drafts I'm in (VG/Movie), there is a lot of versatility that the prep can bring, because there are more types of fighters. In the JD, they are all basically the same type of fighter, with different levels of power/skill/experience. So I just don't see the prep as being an easy thing to judge, and I think it would cause more problems than it would make things more interesting.
That's just me though. I just hope I can find a spot in the next one.
Prep time is just silly in the Jedi Draft.
The other drafts are different.
But here: silly.
First of all, congratulation, Durron, on winning the Draft.
Second of all, I don't really think that it would be a great idea to put 16 GM's in one pool. Realistically speaking, such a scenario REALLY favors the GMs lucky enough to get a good spot in the first round, seeing how the separation in quality between the top picks in the first-second-rounds is quite a bit bigger than the picks in the third, fourth, and upper fifth of a regualar draft. I mean, a 16-team conference would REALLY screw the guys picking say, 10th and below, seeing how anyone above them could arguably get a similar pick in the 2-spot than them but yet have the unsolvable advantage of having an unanswerable big gun up top who can get a guaranteed win off the bat. This is less of a problem with a smaller field, seeing how the talent evens itself out MUCH more evenly. And no lesser picks at the bottom of the pool are really good enough to separate themselves from the pack to the point where they could make a difference (at least, not in the sense of making up the diference in talent between high- and low-picking teams up in the top rounds). So in short, no to the 16-GM conference. The talent pool is too unbalanced (in both top-to-bottom balance and Light/Dark balance) and dries up far too quickly (at this point, anyways) to honestly consider the draft to be a fair one to all participating GM's in such a scenario. I do, however, agree that there should be more picks available for fighters. But the thing is, I don't think we should employ it too much too fast here. In this draft, we went with 12 teams with six players each, a total of 72 fighters. If we went by your proposal, WINDU, of 120-128 fighters, we would almost be doubling the picks within one draft. To me, that's simply too much too fast. Not only would that make for the biggest draft seen for some time, but it would also render the free agent pool to virtually nothing.
Instead, what I propose it this: sixteen teams, two conferences (at eight teams a conference), and twelve picks a team, with each conference having it's own talent pool. With this, we would have about 96 people picked per conference, which would still be managable and would leave us with a halfway decent free-agent pool. We would have more people into the discussions than before, without the diluted feeling of having to make decisions on people who are hardly worthy of ever being picked (like, say, Sharad Hett or Vima-Da-Boda). If we later wish to amplify the pool a little more in future (when we're more acclimated to bigger pools and have a little more to judge on about characters in the KOTOR/Dark Times/Legacy comics and any future DR books), then we can amplify the pool to 120 or so. But for now, I'd rather we take it by steps and not ruin a potentially good idea with bad timing or execution.
Third of all, I really don't like the idea of prep time in the Jedi Draft. It works in the Videogame draft, among others, but it simply wouldn't work as effectively in the Jedi Draft. Way too many complications and potential for silliness to be worth it.
Anyway, just my 1/50th of a dollar
Alright, I see where you're coming from and I will address everything in your post when I get home from work tonight at 11 EST.
I'll say this for now, however... The idea of increasing the number of fighters per team should be implemented because teams generally do not utilize free agency as much as we would like in order to inject a fresh perspective on things. I do not want to go to two conferences at this time unless the popularity of the thread demands it at some point in the future because of difficulties with similar teams facing one another and being repetitious which stifles discussion.
Increasing fighters on each team will make things slightly more difficult for lower squads, but it will place more emphasis on the GMs ability to argue his character over that of another. It will also place more emphasis on team strategy (trumps and possibly prep(s)) which would allow a team without a Luke, Mace, or Yoda to compete with those types of teams.
Also don't forget that the GMs that nab a franchise player are more than likely going to get a weak second rounder which will balance itself out between the teams that have two borderline first rounders.
I'll go into more depth tonight to explain if needed, but I really want to see the more players for each team go up. I can live without the preps, but maybe we can come up with something else for each team to use once a round like a special ability or something. Not necessarily a prep, but something to create discussion besides the usual Luke beats Sidious because he always has and always will. I'd like to see something disrupt that a bit for the sake of the freshness of the game. If you guys have any ideas on that, I'm more than open but I'll go more into it tonight.
Obviously when I said after I get off work I mean when I get done with class the next day... Clearly.
I'd like more than just two or three people's opinion on this too, not that I don't value what Spec and Durron have been saying but everyone who's ever participated in a Draft or is thinking of doing so in the future should be letting their opinion be known now. After I start the thread on the 26th and sign ups begin, it'll be too late to debate game rules.
I think prep could be interesting, without being ridiculous. I don't follow the comic book draft, and only follow the movie/tv one loosely, but I can see it working. Say there was someone who probably couldn't beat Corran Horn under normal judging rules. However, if they were prepped, they would be aware of his TK...deficiency...and could formulate a plan to exploit that against him. Or someone facing Lumiya would be aware of the lightwhip and could have the second, smaller lightsabre to help counter act that, or at least make a plan for dealing with it. They wouldn't, however, get things like thermal detonators and repeating blaster rifles. Or generally, the prepped Jedi would know the say the form the opponent uses and could have some time to plan how to deal with that.
And, of course, being prepped for teams would obviously make someone like Kenth Hamner, who seems to be a fairly good strategist but has no worth as a single combatant, much more useful.
I don't really like the idea of prep time in this particular draft. See posts above as to why.
Something I think that would be about as interesting as prep would be randomized arenas. (IMHO only), say, Obi-Wan would have a far harder time against Anakin in a closed arena with nowhere to run and no lava, distractions, etc. around. Right now the fighters are fighting in some imaginary nowhere-space.
Could have something like
1: Tatooine Desert
2: Gungan Swamp/Lake
3: Death Star Throneroom
5: Ewok Village
6: Geonosis Arena
and shuffle them each round.
A smart fighter would benefit in a crowded arena, a powerful fighter would benefit in an open or small arena, and Kit Fisto would always win the underwater fight.