Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by alienyouthct, Jul 30, 2002.
Incestual pairings themselves are just... creepy.
Oh yeah, I'm fully aware of the realities, and have no plans to quit my day job any time soon. I will still dream, though. And write. Writing is the important part.
Writing is definitely the important part. I hope I didn't sound discouraging, 'cause that wasn't my intent. Just more . . . cautionary. We're not all blessed with abnormally stupid luck, like Stephanie Meyer or E.L. James. *cough*
The dumb luck of E.L. James just makes my eye twich. Though, it kinda gives me hope that one day I'll be published. Those two books are examples of how you don't have to be the best writer to get a book published, you simply have to tell a story that people want to read (but I have way more self-dignity then to ever write a brainless book).
Lol, well said. I tried to read part of one of Meyer's books, just for curiosity's sake... I read maybe three pages before I couldn't take anymore. I know (at least by name) so many fanfiction writers who are lightyears ahead of Meyer's writing level. Now if only writing fanfiction weren't so addicting...
Mav Edit: Please no linking to stories in this thread.
They are similar, but with some editing, you could definitely make it different.
I think the ideas are ok to be similar, but the green hair is too similar. I like the idea however, so I really think just changing the idea of Obi-Wan's individuality would be fine.
Hmmmm, the second link gives me an 'invalid story' message so I assume that you took the story down? Without comparing the two, I can't really say if they're too similar, but if readers were thinking that they were too similar, then best to take it down on the other site, though I would leave it up here, since the Challenge should explain its origins. I know I've given Obi-Wan green hair in a fic, though it was a throw-away line and not his choice.
My dad read the book in question, or at the very least, part of it. In his words? "It's crappy for even high school." It dumbfounds him how something that lacks any semblance of grammar was published and got such "rave" reviews. If the author were in his class and turned that pile in for a grade, the author would be flunked.
I don't blame him. I'd flunk both James and Meyers.
Ditto. Did Twilight slip through just because some editor realized it would sell well to young readers who hadn't developed much discrimination?
What's really deplorable is how some teachers, parents etc. latch onto things like Twilight as though it's the best thing to have ever happened to teen literature. I understand that these people want their kids to read more... but I don't see how it does them any good to read this kind of stuff, when the point of reading is supposed to be that it's good for your intellect. Books like Twilight are just the greasy junk food of fiction.
I read it once, thought it was ok, then I decided to analyse it for a project. Waste of my time (didn't learn ANYTHING about literary analysis), not really anything there deeper than a kiddie pool, and everyone is such a Mary Sue/Gary Stu.
And Edward is a creep. I had some friends who didn't understand why I thought that Carlisle or Emmett were better. Gee, I wonder.
I hate fics (which I've seen) exactly like that. If I'm going to write mush, I'm going to make it fluffy and wonderful, but really. We don't need everyone to be perfect and then on top of it, be "saved" from every life event.
Though out of curiosity, I read one Twilight fic that was actually very good. I wish the author of the fic had been the one to write Twilight. It would have been ten million-bajillion times better.
I'm rambling, so I'm going to stop there. But I can't stand that book, or similar plotted fics.
I'm not a Twilight fan by any means, but I'll defend the POV that it's making kids read more. When you have a kid that won't read at all, their reading crap is an improvement. And we risk these kids never getting interested in reading if they are told that the few works that they find remotely interesting are junk food.
The equivalent in the elementary grades is Captain Underpants. It's total crap, but it does take some intellect to read the words on the page, and they are building skills that they will use to read stuff that isn't crap.
//school librarian post
However that's not what I said, much less what I meant.
I don't mind if a teen likes Twilight just because they like Twilight--I liked a lot of things when I was younger that I shudder to think about now, and which I could certainly have done without reading in the long run. But that was my choice as a kid to read them because that's where my interests were at the time. I wasn't taking about that at all.
What I find deplorable is how some teachers and parents seem to think that directing their kids toward crappy writing is the best and easiest fix if they aren't avid enough readers. By all means we ought to encourage them to read, regardless of what their tastes naturally lean toward, but there are better things they could be directed towards if someone in that kind of position is going to recommend anything.
Early indications were that I was not going to be a reader. See Dick, see Jane bored me. Hated reading. Then I discovered Fairy Tales of the World and before you knew it, I was reading Laura Ingalls Wilder and turned into a bookworm.
Give a kid something they WANT to read to get them started...
Exactly. And yes, if a teenage girl isn't reading at all but saw the Twilight movie and loved it, I absolutely would recommend the book and other vampire romances like it. I'd want to get her reading before I handed her Jane Austen. On the same note, if a low reader in my school loved fart jokes, I'd hand him Captain Underpants in a heartbeat.
There was a really good set of articles on this about a year ago in Knowledge Quest, the professional journal of the American Association of School Librarians. The theme of the journal was "reversing readicide" and one of the biggest points it emphasized was letting kids read for fun, even if they are reading crap, as opposed to pushing them to read "quality.". As one of my grad school professors said, "If I were told what I had to read, I wouldn't read either."
By all means hand Jane Austen to a strong reader who likes crappy romance novels. But for a weaker reader who does not enjoy reading--not so much.
That kind of assumes that quality goes hand in hand with dryness, though, that (still) pushing kids to read certain things over what they want to read is involved, and that complicated and wordy novels like Jane Austen or Lord of the Flies are what count as "quality" fiction for the sake of this conversation. The Hobbit, The Chronicles of Narnia, (supposedly) Harry Potter and (to a lesser degree) series like Animorphs or Last of the Jedi are what I would consider decent or good quality fiction, and they are all engaging without stooping to the level of Twilight or Captain Underpants. By all means, it's ridiculous to tell a kid they should be reading X even though they want to read Y, especially when X was written for more mature readers, but as I've already stated that really wasn't the point I intented to make. It goes without saying that that shouldn't be practiced, by teachers or parents.
I'll be honest... I never read any of Jane Austen's work as a kid. In fact, on my "required reading list," I read perhaps two books. One was slogged through because it was required, and the other I read because one of my classmates told me it had sex in it. At that time, I've never read sex. I had a choice of reading a required book that would have bored me to tears, or one in a genre I wouldn't have otherwise read, but it had sex in it. You had better believe that I read Like Water for Chocolate very quickly!
After that, I ditched that stupid list and went back to reading what I wanted to read. I still read what I want to read. And I encourage my niece and nephews to read what they want to read. My niece asks me if I ever read anything on her required reading list and I tell her frankly that, no, I haven't because they didn't interest me. You can read quality work that interests you. You can read schlockfests that interest you. Just as long as you're reading.
For the record, my grandma read Twilight, but she can't remember anything about the books.
My favorite book ever is A Tale of Two Cities, which is stereotypically considered the epitome of complicated and wordy fiction, haha.
And I'm a huge Harry Potter fan- in fact, HP is what pretty-well killed my interest in Star Wars for a good 9 years or so. What I think made HP great especially for my particular age, give or take a year or two (I'm 23 now) was that the series became really popular when I was 10, and the last book came out when I was 18. And the way that Rowling wrote those books, the maturity level increased as the characters grew up- so while I feel like the 1st book was appropriate for a 10-year-old, I also feel that the last book was a YA/teen novel, and not something a 10 yo would necessarily be mature enough to handle. It was an amazing feeling for me of growing up with those characters. But of course, that would be hard to recapture for future generations since a kid who finishes book 1 at the age of 11 isn't going to want to wait a year to read book 2, if they're interested. *sigh*
As for Twilight- meh. The only reason people groan over kids reading bad books is because they're popular bad books. Kids read bad books all the time and no one notices, because they aren't global teeny-bopper sensations usually. I would, however, question a parent who didn't vet the content of that last book before giving it to a kid below a certain age. Demon vampire babies and... ick.
I will say though- I did read The Host, Meyer's only (as far as I know) non-Twilight novel, and it wasn't terrible. Not great, but certainly better than Twilight.
But Star Wars is what really got me into novels. I remember being 9 or so and buying Dark Force Rising at the bookstore, and the cashier asking if it was for me. And looking quite surprised when I said yes.
J.K. Rowling has also been credited with getting kids to read more, in fact, she has been credited as being one of the few authors who could convince kids to read 1000-page books.
The Hobbit and the Chronicles of Narnia series are far more complicated in the way of vocabulary and prose than Captain Underpants, The Hobbit in particular, as it is written at a 7th grade level (the Narnia books are 5th grade level or so, not much above Captain Underpants). I found The Hobbit complex when I read it as an adult. Captain Underpants has pictures and drawings, although it is not a full-blown graphic novel. Kids who struggle with reading often do well with graphic novels, as they feel less intimidated by a page with words and drawings than a page full of walls of text.
And I have never known an educator or a parent anywhere who would try to push a Jane Austen reader to read Twilight or would label Twilight as great at anything other than getting teenage girls to read when they might not be reading otherwise.
Hey guys, this is the FanFic Pet Peeves thread. Please keep discussion to Pet Peeves of fanfiction, not discussions on reading, published authors or if one story is like another.
Back to pet peeves, then...
You know what grinds my gears? When a strong story beginning devolves into a weak middle and a nonsensical end. Or, it devolves into surprise buttsecks. That really grinds my gears.
Oh, me, too! One of the reasons I frequently stop posting for a while is because if I start feeling like the story isn't working, I don't want to force something just to get it done. I know that's annoying for some people, but if you can't do the piece justice, why settle?
Speaking of stopping work on a piece, something that does annoy me somewhat is when an author decides that he/she wouldn't be able to finish it up to his/her expectations and then decides to abandon the piece without giving any indication of the direction he/she was intending to take the piece. I'm sure that many writers have an ending, and perhaps bits and pieces of plot ideas along the way that they have planned out even if they have not drafted them, and I think it would give the readers a much better sense of closure to the story if the author would share those ideas in a final post. It doesn't have to be a "chapter" piece at all, simply a short summary of what the author had originally intended. Of course, I understand that some authors may intend to go back to a particular story of theirs someday long after abandoning it and thus may not wish to share the plot of the remaining story, but I'm sure there are also authors who have abandoned the story for good and I just wish they would help tie up the story for the readers.