Discussion Fan Fic Pet Peeves?

At any rate, before this turns into some fandom drama that isn't intended or necessary, let me just say that while my "clique" comments stand, my other original comment was intended to be encouraging, not discouraging. I was, in fact, attempting to empathize with the frustrations of the other writers, because I know where they're coming from.



And J_L, peeve off, you peever.

 

Will do.

Another pet peeve. You are reading a story and you really, really like it and then it takes a horrible turn and now you are all freaked out and don't know if you should continue reading to see if this is straightened out or what. That is just something I don't like. I know it can be great writing and used for dramatic effect...but it is tough when you are blindsided with something totally unexpected.

Some turns can't be undone. I was reading a story and liking it until Mara has sex with Palpatine. Then I just couldn't read any more. ACK!

I guess that is why I stick with certain authors. I don't like dark surprises.

 

A peeve of mine is when the fic is great but for my own health I can't continue.

I was reading one and it upset me so much on an emotional level that I barely ate and lost sleep for two days.

The fic was great and they depicted things really well but emotionally I couldn't handle it.

So I am more peeved with myself then anything.

 

So can I be peeved or, mmm, is that not-peeved...or heck.

No harm, no foul to anyone here...I don't think anyone so to speak "crossed the line" but the possibility that it might seemed - possible.

Without hearing tonal inflections or seeing facial expressions, it can be quite difficult to ascertain the "mindset" behind certain words. Gosh knows I am guilty of giving offense when none was intended. And equally as guilty of taking something personally that wasn't personal or even meant in any way other than comment.

for all!

 

I felt that way with a fic over at FFN. It was an emotionally upsetting story, but it pulled me in. The story broke my heart, but I couldn't stop reading it. I mean it was horrific...but so very possible. I would be depressed after reading it.

 

Wow! I did not mean to set off that mess and honestly my comments were NOT directed at any one person (especially on this thread) or anything from anyone's profile or anything like that. My peeve came from aggravation over the years that I had experienced reading fics. The people on this thread do not fit into that profile, imo. The people this thread tend to care about their fics and work on them with diligence. I do happen to try to make a point to comment on fics I read here or at other sites. I can't say say I am 100% at it, but I more often than not, if I am there, you know it. It's true readership has changed on this site over the last several years and become more frustrating than ever. Do not let that mess with your writing confidence!

My NEW peeve is that it is always the decent writers that are the first to think the bad stuff is about them vs the writers that it should apply to, but they don't read read this thread ever or they wouldn't do half the of the peeves listed on a regular basis.

 

I don't think anybody wants to admit that they crave reviews because we should be writing for the love of writing...but we all know that's not true. People like positive attention. That's why people crave to be famous movie stars. If people didn't want attention from others there wouldn't be so many YouTube videos of folks doing all types of funny or horrific or downright nasty things. They want the attention. I think fanfic writers are the same way. If nobody was giving me any feedback do you think I would spend two or three hours a day writing, buying stupid books like The Creative Writer's Phrase-Finder, and bugging my beta non-stop? I don't get paid for this. We do it because people appear to like reading it. It's like putting your painting up in a studio. You hope people will say they like it and maybe somebody will buy it.

I love reading fanfiction. I think it is better than most profics. I paid $25 for the hardback novel of Apocalypse but I got to read a much more satisfying fanfic for free....that had bootknocking! If it takes a "Good Job" to get that writer to continue to write, then I think it is time well spent.

So I guess what I am saying is being frustrated by a high readership but a low review count is a legitimate pet peeve and as a reader it is in my best interest to comment to my favorite author or my favorite author may say, "No more bootknocking L/M mush for you!" By the way, ginchy when are you going to do a shine for my story?

 

My biggest pet peeve is plagiarism. Plagiarism represents dishonesty to others who read your work, a disrespect to the original author, and a lack of creativity on a more personal level.

 

That's not a peeve - that's an offense!

 

Jedi_Lover

There is a tremendous difference between constructive criticism and the trolling you describe having received at ff.net. That kind of response should be disallowed, but what I'm referring to is the use of positive reinforcement and encouraging the growth of the writer whose work you like. Just because we're not professionals doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to improve ourselves, or ignore/reject an honest attempt by another author or a reader to help us do better. I can tell you plain that such feedback has helped me immeasurably.

 

Goodwood: on this board you must ask for feedback critique to get any. If you don't specifically indicate this, any poster who does so has actually violated the rules. See the FAQs for the actual wording regarding this.

 

I see a confusion of "critique" and "critic." What I've seen termed as "concrit" is a critique. How I usually format critiques is as a sandwich: Compliment and point out things that you like, then touch upon areas that you feel need improvement while offering suggestions in a calm manner, then end with another compliment and encouragement. This style of critique is often very well-received. It's not negative in any fashion and is often immensely helpful.

Criticism is usually negative. To criticize is to point out the negative aspects and not offer any suggestions. That is wholly different than a critique, and it bothers me when people use the words interchangeably. They're not interchangeable and they don't mean the same thing.

 

Exactly, Trak; critiquing with the goal of helping the author. Isn't that what a well-rounded review is about?

 

Folks, I'm not taking a stand, I'm referring the FAQs of this board, to wit:

I highlighted the pertinent passage.

Now, in practice, this gets bent a bit without anyone getting bent out of shape (usually). Back when we had a vocal "Christian values" group, I finally told someone to back off and let me write my own story that otherwise fit the guidelines (it had a canon character get romantically involved without benefit of marriage after I spent chapters building it up so that it was plausible and not cheap).

I know others had similar things from time to time, but as Trak said, there is a difference between critiquing and criticising and some don't know the difference.

And I think questions like "how do you justify X doing Y" is fine, because you can say "it will become clear" or go, uh oh, I didn't set up the preparatory work to justify that as I thought I had, because that is questioning, not saying "you did it wrong, X wouldn't do Y."

 

Point taken.

Still, the clause on "concrit" (a term I don't particularly care for, but whatever) seems a bit simplistic and...rudimentary. I recognize that it's not gonna get changed, though.

 

And sometimes innocent critiquing is seen by a writer as criticism...no matter how much you sandwich the bad in between the good comments. Unless a writer asks for constructive criticism it shouldn't be offered. This is not a writer's workshop. It is a place to post stories you have written. Often well intentioned criticism is as welcomed as a Mother-in-law giving her daughter-in-law advice on how to raise the kids. The mother-in-law's advice may be spot on, helpful and needed...but it is rarely welcomed and just irritates the person getting the well meaning advice.

I think this No Concrit policy is what makes people feel safer at TFN when posting their stories than other sites where constructive criticism is not banned.

 

Perhaps I should post this in 'You know you're a Fan Fic writer" but its when you take everything to heart...

Anyway, what poked me back out was this -

You 'youngins' don't know how good you have it - I started writing when this particular group was at its peak... unless you were writing to a (figurative) 'Dora the Explorer' aged audience, you got the finger wag masked in the form of 'concrit'. Many fights to change the standards went all the way to the site owners, and I'm sure at one point, the biggest one (writing characters who are attracted/involved with the same gender) went all the way to LFL (As long as established characters aka Luke/Han/Leia/Anakin/Obi-Wan/Qui-gon, and official EU et all are not portrayed in that way, 'gay characters' are fine as long as things are not overt). It got really nasty - and even bled over into other 'non cannon parings' ie Jaina and someone who she's not paired with in the EU - (genuine apology, I really don't know the EU) - people who danced the fine line between 'feedback' and ripping the story/author for daring to think outside the box... Nastiness and bullying hidden as 'concrit' is the reason for the crackdown, and that's why it is...

 

I am one of those writers who loves to write bootknocking stories and sometimes I wonder if it is irritating people because the characters are not married. What is funny is I am a very shy and reserved person who wouldn't think about doing what most of my characters are doing. I have had gay characters in my stories but I never say they are gay. They "prefer the company of men" and according to Homer Simpson, "Who wouldn't!"

What I don't get is why over at the JCC or Senate they can talk about the nastiest stuff without a word said. They have threads titled "What do women say the first time they see your junk?" Come on guys? I'm glad the fanfic forums have higher standards, but I wish that would carry over to these other forums. I wouldn't want my teenage boys reading half the stuff over there.

When it comes to fanfic writing, I have friends tell me, "Oh a mod is going to make you change that" (and they are right), but what I am writing is nothing compared to the prime time commercials my kids see on TV for E.D. or that awful "Personal Massager" commercial that will "blow your hair back". PG-13 in movies is way different than the PG of my youth.

I can't imagine a time where you couldn't pair Jaina with somebody other than Jag, Zekk or Kyp. I wonder how many people are still perm-banned for a Jaina/Valin romance.

 

Yes, people left the FF boards either by choice or herded away - sad times indeed.

You know, I think that once I'm fueled up (coffee and CIG run - so sue me) I'm going to start a thread about 'gay' characters here in resource as it's a far more complex discussion than that belongs here...

 

My peeves tend to run the other way... I understand that folks want to see romance in fiction, but there have been times when it's gotten to be way too much.

The worst time was when a friend asked me to read her stories, and every other chapter was mostly sex. She asked me personally to review her story, and I didn't know that was what she wrote, so it was kind of a rude surprise... but I'd already agreed and couldn't figure out at first how to reneg without hurting her feeligns. I ended up skipping every other chapter just to try to get through the story. And then she started messaging me asking why I was only reviewing half of them... she was understanding when I finally explained why, but I got so much flack from other friends of hers that they almost got me banned from the site. I had to carbon-copy the moderators everything I'd said so that they could see I hadn't been aggressive toward my friend.

I know some people really like reading romance, and some people are good at writing it, and I can't fault either sort... their tastes in what kinds of stories they enjoy just happen to be very different from mine... but I do hate it when people act like sex scenes are obligatory in good writing, or that a fanfic "can't possibly be any good" if it never goes into details about the characters' relationships. Or that there's something wrong with you if you don't crave explicit details. I've seen people discount a fic just because they assume if it's PG-rated, it must be immature crap. That's just so wrong. No one who has reviewed my fics has ever complained because I didn't include romance, even when those writers themselves write mostly romance. Obviously they got by without it somehow. :\

 

I think there is a lot of romance in fanfic stories because it is one thing that is totally missing in the profic. You can get action packed stories but no real romance. Even Union or the Courtship of Princess Leia did the love story poorly. They have to throw in terrorists, assassins, rancors or whatever. I think the only romance I have ever seen were the Valentine's day profic short stories. There was one about Han and Leia and Luke and Mara. I liked those. But I agree that sometimes enough is enough. I usually don't go into details. I prefer the 'fade to black' type of writing.

 

Just wanted to point out that romance is not the same thing as erotica.

 

OK - I HAVE to say this - one writer's romance is another writer's erotica - and there is a big difference between a tantalizing, teasing, romantic scene and PWP...

 

Indeed. I don't know if I can mention a fellow author,

Spoiler

Serendipityaey,

who does romance but barely touches on sex. Romance =/= sex. Romance can be holding a character's hand and a kiss on the cheek.

On this board, sex can only be taken so far so as far as I'm aware; unless you just don't want even "fade to black" type sex, you're not going to run into sex here. Sexual situations with some authors, yes. We had quite the discussion on "romance and sex" over in the Obi-Wan character thread some weeks past and our preferences - it was an interesting, illuminating and non-confrontational discussion.

Here's where I think titles and the tf.n header are best used:

Title: (story title) genre, characters etc. Made up example: Heart of Han, mush, H/L, post-dental surgery
TFn header: after the usual author, etc. you can put in genre or notes something like: consumated romance

You don't get surprised readers and the readers don't get a surprise.