Discussion Fan Fic Pet Peeves?

Has anyone tried the Wayback for these truncated stories? I found a favorite LuvEwan story there

http://web.archive.org/web/20070216220018/http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/20986160/p1/?13

It did take some digging, though. I put in a request on another thread to have a 'state of the boards' address at some point soon, like 'what went right with the move, what went wrong, and how's that truncation fix coming along?' but no reply as yet.

 

Isn't that the whole point of AU stories that use canon characters? If we kept it canon it wouldn't be AU.

Don't read any of my stories then. I throw out everything I didn't like in the EU. If I was satisfied with the EU I wouldn't be writing at all. I would be rereading Children of the Jedi and gushing at what a wonderful love story it is. A boy and his bodysnatching Force-reanimated corpse.

I think that is the case. I have friends that were here that are writing over there almost exclusively now. The rules are a little more lax over there and you keep all your stories in one place. So if you like a writer you pull up their profile and there are all their other stories written. Here fanfics disappear after they get to page five...never to be read again. Also the truncation problem is still an issue. So if you want to continue a story from before the move your readers are probably going to have to go to FFN (if you post there) to read the earlier chapters.

Also some people don't like the interaction on these boards. Over at FFN you leave a review and unless the writer responds you usually don't have further interaction. Here people will comment on your comments. I think boards can be intimidating to some people. I know I don't often go over to the Senate or JCC because they can be rude, condesending and downright mean. That is the place where there are major cliques.

So if a person started out over at those forums and were insulted they may never come back and never get to the Fanfic forum.

 

Yes! More than sharing the same fandom hive-mind idea *how much was Obi-Wan offput when Qui-Gon called him 'capable?'* some folks use stories from even other fandoms, change the names and a few setting details, and then post.

One odd thing might be on a 'fanart pet peeves' thread if there is one: some talented artist on LJ did a piece to my prompt, and later on ffn it turned up as someone's profile illustration. Weird.

 

What I don't like is when a fanfic writer screams plagerism when it is just the same basic plot. For example, lets say we watch a national TV show where a person fakes their death in order to avoid prosecution. So a fanfic writer writes a L/M story about that. Then a few years later somebody comes up with a similar idea where a person fakes their death. They write a completely different fanfic but with that plot point. The first writer calls foul! The second writer didn't even know about the first writer's story...never read it or heard about it. The second writer says, "I haven't read your story, so there is no way it is the same other than the major plot arc."

Boy I saw one irritated writer complaining to the mods about this for a long time. The first writer was PMing me since I knew both writers and tried to get me to get the person to stop writing their story. I'm like, "You don't own Star Wars or a generic plot."

If you live in the USA you are probably watching the same national news channels, the same HBO stories, the same sitcoms. We are bound to get plot bunnies from the same source of inspiration. If the only thing that is the same is a general plot, get over it. Otherwise Lucas would have been sued for taking plots from his favorite movies and books from when he was a kid.

People steal fanart all the time. One person I knew had her art work exhibited in a European art magazine. There was no mention of her name. She contacted the editor and he said, "I thought anything found on the internet is freeware."

 

*looks around her at fellow US citizens and fellow earthers, too* Yes, and hearing of movies, too, even if we don't actually go see them. We are truly IDIC: infinite diversity in infinite combinations /cosmic

Fanart is, as the talented aforementioned artist stated, 'so easy to give, so hard to take back' on the internet.

Ack, freeware!

 

Jedi_Lover I agree with you about the generic storylines that we have all covered at one point or another and had piggyback (dewbacked?) off of other media we have see. Lucas found his inspiration this way, why shouldn't we, right? It's fun to see how each writer approaches the generic storylines common to popular characters - at least to me. What you are speaking of does seem a very thin argument for plagiarism.

However, there is the way some have used the same storyline, but stolen dialogue [not generic or common to a character] and several small details that would not be considered specific to the generic storyline and all within a few weeks of a the original fic. That has been known to happen and that is inexcusable.

 

I read a fan fic and an idea sparked for a slightly similar story. I have kept more to the movies and the other one was AU in more ways then one.

And I will admit that I was playing with a fic idea. I got it looking at another fic that seemed interesting. I tried to read it but it was explicit when it came to sex so I didn't finish it. The idea came back when I watched a Numb3rs episode. I might mix and match if I decide to germinate the idea any further.

And there is a fan fic that I follow that the author admitted that the first few chapters of her fic would be rather similar to an older unfinished fic. I read both and both are AU but the older one was always AU while the other one went AU after a certain point.

 

Becoming inspired from someone's work is fine. More than a spark? Well, depends on how similar. I think that is the big question. How similar does it have to be before plagiarism comes into play?

I think your last point is walking a dangerous line. Why should someone feel it's okay to take someone's fic and 'finish' it for them? Or essentially copy it to a certain point and then give it a different ending? Especially without asking. It's not like you can't write it, but posting it is something else unless you have permission from the original author. Just think how you would feel if someone did that to you.

 

A valid question J_Girl

One that we should all think about.

 

It would feel horrible. The whole 'Remix' idea on LJ's comm involves getting permission from the author, often in the same comm, and playing with the story under auspices. It's sort of an honor to be asked and kind of fun to see what comes of the whole project.

 

Plot bunny - inspiration - similar storylines - NOT plagarism any more than our fanfic is plagarism of GL's works. Outright copying of sequential plot points and/or dialogue - plagarism.

I know I've got a going-on-3-years partially written story where a recent story was so darn close to what I had drafted that I panicked and asked my beta who had read my story if I should junk it to avoid accusations of plagarism down the line. I also PM'd the author and esentially told her how similar our work was and did she think it a problem or should I can it...keep in mind neither of us plagarised the other because she never saw my story (unpublished) and my beta can confirm mine was written quite some time previously.

So it is a very fine line when we're working from the same general plots, especially when they're canonical.

 

Valairy Scot. I faced the same exact situation. I started writing a story in 2006, but never finished it. I also never posted it, although my beta saw it. In 2011 I decided to finish it and post it. At the start of the story people reviewed it and said it reminded them of another writer's story. So I went and read the other person's story....which was very different, but two chapters that was setting up the plot were freakishly similar. I couldn't have read it prior because her story was posted two years after I wrote my chapters. When you ave a similar plot sometimes there are only a couple ways to setup the situation. Of course nothing after that was similar. Hers was full of angst and mine was full of bootknocking.

 

Your seemed to have handled the situation the way I would want to be approached as the original author. Always better to err on the side of safety than be accused of plagiarizing and having no personal imagination. Agreed. Canonical general plots is the basis of fanfiction. There is always a chance that two authors follow down the same path with similar details years apart. It can happen.

However, when the timing of the storyline is 'coincidental' and the details are remarkably similar as well as the order of the plot points. I think we can all agree, it's better just not to to post it.

 

I might be safe since the explicit sex fic I mentioned a few posts back is Slash and I don't write Slash. Rarely read it for that matter.

And Valairy Scot has a point. Then you have to consider that there are over 30,000 Star Wars fan fics on ff.net, who knows how many here and on other sites like livejournal, deviantART and other fan sites. and you have fan authors that post on multiple sites.

It's impossible to read through all of them and then come up with a story that doesn't lean too far towards one of them.

You have several by different people where Luke ends up with his father as either a baby or a very small child. There was one that I know for sure where Vader raised Leia from an infant. She was unknowingly left on Polis Massa. Since the author hasn't finished it I don't know everything that led up to her getting left behind.

 

That is so true. Sometimes when I come up with a plot bunny I PM a few other people at TFN and ask, "Have you read anything with so-and-so plot?" Most of the time it is "Yes". But a lot of the authors out there are serious writers with serious plots. I don't write serious so even if I have the exact same plot, it is going to be very different when I write it.

I say if you read a story and wanted to write your own with a similar plot...then be careful that you don't borrow too much from the story. But if I was writing a story and halfway though I find out there is a similar story (one I have never read)...I am still going to finish it. How can I plagiarize something I have never seen? Any similarities are a coincidence. They could complain to a mod, but I doubt they will find exact dialog or plot points.

 

I'm not talking similar plots. I'm talking about matching plots point for point and details and perhaps dialogue. Most of the time, plots are generic and makes for the basis of fanfiction in general. So there are always similar plots. It has to be that way. There are no true original plots or stories in this world. Ask Shakespeare, lol. The Dark Side really does live in the details.

 

True, but my original post was my pet peeve is some writers think their plot device to bring about a particular event is theirs and theirs alone and they will complain if you use it. And I mean REALLY complain...like ask the Mod to ban you. I saw some fanfic dialog yesterday that was almost point by point from one of my fanfics...but I didn't think anything about it because I think I got the idea from a TV show. I'm just saying is some writer's call foul over any similarities. Which is really ironic because we expect Lucas to share with us but we get bent out of shape over similarities that are most likely coincidence...even if the plot follows almost the same route. We are all borrowing from things we read or saw on TV...so I don't find it odd at all that some stories are strikingly similar.

Now, taking a fanfic and simply move around some words and trying to pass it off as your own is plagiarism.

I have a question though. Lets say you read a story and you like the concept, but you really don't like the direction that fic went. You think, I wish it went a different way. So you start with a blank sheet of paper and write a story where the plot is similar at first, but it goes a entirely different direction...would that be something where you have to get permission from the writer that inspired your story? Because in this case the inspiration is how bad their story is and how you think you can make it better.

"Hey I liked how your story started, but it really sucked after chapter one. Do you mind if I take your plot bunny and write a good story?"

Similar plots usually happens after a new book is released. After Choices of One came out there were a lot of Mara and Luke get together then stories.

 

Hazel did one like that and I think there's another one on ff.net.

And I am rewriting a lot of the EU. It's messed up now since Echo appears in one of the earliest ones and

Spoiler

Ahsoka was in the Order still.

 

Honestly, I wish somebody would "steal" some of my stories. They might actually get finished then

 

That's the spirit!

On another note, a peeve has to do with the way that Canon change (considering, but not limited to, Character Death and Vastly Superior New Villain Introduction) changes one's outlook on a WIP. For example, now that we readers/viewers know that Character A has bit the big one, how does that change the character in our heads, and maybe derails the story completely?

 

Blatant self inserts or Sues/Stus that are super over powered.

I am guilty of over powering some of my OCs but I have tried to take steps back.

By the way pronker what is your avatar and where can I find it bigger?

 

That actually brings up a really good point and is a big reason one of my stories isn't finished. I'm torn between continuing the story as I've envisioned my main character or to make adjustments based on EU that has come out since I first started writing the story.

 

Not being "over-inspired" is definitely a challenge for me... especially since when I see a story I really like, it's usually because it uses ideas I already wanted to write for myself. I usually do end up writing them anyways, because... they were my own ideas, someone else just happened to have them too. I don't mind seeing someone else use the same ideas first, because it gives me an opportunity to look at a plot point critically from a perspective that I couldn't if it were my own story. If too many of the specifics are similar, I can pare down any cliche details and try to find ones that are more out-of-the-box, or just generally different.

The only problem is that I run the risk of the same kind of "plagiarism-itis" Jedi_Lover mentioned, because chances are by the time I realize there are some of the same elements I want to use, I've already left a nice review for the person's story at least once... if I then post my own story and someone does take issue, they now have published "proof" that I read the other story before publishing mine. But the only alternative is to avoid fanfiction, and miss out on that juicy kick of inspiration that helps keep me writing.

 

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130207053404/starwars/images/a/a4/Obi-Wan_holds_Satine.JPG

I am fond of OCs and haven't tried to discern if they are Sues/Stus. I've read many parodies of such, though, and they must be out there somewhere!

 

There were fans (are most likely still are) that wouldn't accept that Luke and Leia were twins even when it shows their birth. I read a fic and the author stated that it was a lie that Luke and Leia were twins.