Saga Fandom's Opinion of Pablo Hidalgo

Pablo Hildalgo. I like that guy. He's Canadian, and he gets to keep track of what did or didn't happen as his JOB. I've been doing that for FREE for 15 years. That is what dreams are made of. I envy him, and everyone on the story group for that.

I don't envy some of the entitled fan crap he has to go through. That would drive me bonkers and I'd probably end up being much ruder on twitter. The man's patience is certainly to be admired.

Overall, I trust the story group. I like where things seem to be headed in the post-Lucas Star Wars world and their influence on the big picture of the story is much appreciated.

 

If Mr. Hildalgo is still taking questions, I have one about lightsabers. In the Clone Wars and Rebels shows, Jedi Padawans get their lightsaber crystals though a Force test that appears to direct them to a very specific crystal and no other. I was curious if this means that the Padawan in question can or cannot chose what color blade they want for their saber.

I suppose related to that, if the Padawans are Force-directed to specific color crystal and can't chose which color, does the Force assign colors for a specific reason? For example, say Rey builds her own saber in any of the upcoming movies or tie-ins, will the color of the blade have any significance in-universe to the Force or Rey herself, or is the color purely random?

 

Good enough for me to like him!

Cryogenic mikeximus Qui-Riv-Brid
Where the hell are you people? Your missing out on this rare occasion!

Less for me but they have a Canadian so I'm fine with it.

 

Thanks for the tag Ezon Pin!

I've read through the thread, and of course, I have my opinions...

I also realize that PH is participating in this thread.

I have been following/reading PH's content for over 10 years now (not on twitter though, I hate twitter). Even before Hyperspace.

During Hyperspace, I loved his set diaries, the webchats, the webcam! He has seen things that I can only dream of ever seeing. Better yet, he has been able to sit down and pick the brain of George Lucas himself! My jealousy for Mr. Hidalgo has no end...

My impression of him is he is someone that is doing the job he is asked or told to do of whatever paymaster he currently works for! Once upon a time it was Lucas/LFL through the different LFL entities he worked for/under. Now it's Disney/LFL under whatever entities he works for...

I think, overall he does, and has done a good job in his relationship with the fans. However, (there's always a but...) there are occasions where I can see the fandom getting a little twisted with him. Every once in a while, he has a smugness about him with fans. Now, I am not saying that some fans don't deserve a bit of smugness directed at them,

I think what kinda gets me is that he has shown he can be just as guilty of the fanatical side of the Star Wars fandom as any of us (see the Mon Calamari and EU stuff that has been posted here in this thread). So even back in the days of Hyperspace or Lucas Online, when every once in a while he'd have a smarmy remark about certain aspects of the fandom it sometimes felt in bad taste. That's just me though....

As far as the story group under Disney, and the effect it's had on the story. One of the examples that has always burned my ass, is the Stormtroopers/Clonetroopers debate...

Back with AOTC it was made clear through various quotes from Lucas (Yes George Lucas himself not a LFL spokesman) that the Stormtroopers, were at least for the most part clones. In fact Mr. Hidalgo himself, via a Hyperspace Set Diary, finally got the answer straight from Lucas's mouth. The stormtroopers were clones (taking into account Lucas's own little fun with the fandom where he makes jokes about different quality of clones to appease fans complaints about why stormtroopers can't shoot straight).

However, after, Disney takes over, the narrative changed. Mr. Hidalgo announced at one of the Con's that the debate had finally been settled, and that Stormtroopers were not clones... This was a shock, in that there had been for nearly 10 years evidence that the debate was over but with different results...

This announcement I believe was because of one of the episodes from Rebels where Ezra infiltrates a stormtrooper training facility where young children are indoctrinated into the ranks.

In his explanation, Mr. Hidalgo said that this narrative was based on notes Lucas had developed... and it was pretty much left at that...It felt empty when we had so much more evidence from Lucas that said the opposite...

Now I know narratives change, it happens. However, it just feels that this specific change in narrative was more a result of others (those responsible for Rebels) playing in the Star Wars universe and changing the narratives of Lucas, more than a possible idea that Lucas was or may have been playing with at some point.

So I see where Lt. Hija is coming from with their earlier remarks that now-a-days we are in danger of seeing narratives changed by many different sources because of the people in the story group, other filmmakers, writers etc etc.

This is not a direct criticism of Mr. Hidalgo, as he is just doing the job he is paid to do! This is more a criticism of the era of Star Wars that we are in, where as others have said, Fans that are in the position of being writers, filmamkers, or having jobs with LFL are now making Star Wars, and a lot of it is just not ringing true from a story telling aspect, and each person wants to get their own fan favorite moments into whatever medium they are working in.

 

I don't get why people think there is one person who decides or even represents what star wars is anymore. Pablo is kind of a public ambassador either by choice or because it is his job or both, but there are tons of people either as part of the story group or who influence decision making/ideas on a daily basis. I mean Filoni probably has the most creative control out of anyone at Lucasfilm because he isn't really beholden to anyone other than making things fit within the existing timeline and canon and he has shown time and time again he can be pretty creative at bending those rules or putting old Legends stuff back into the story. When he is dealing with his original characters it becomes a lot less messy and introducing Vader or Leia becomes more of a privilege than an obligation in terms of how much preexisting stuff he has to keep track of.

The feature film makers are more constrained because they have to build off existing characters and ideas and Episode 8 has to follow the story points and ideas JJ Abrams and the rest of the team probably constructed for the entire trilogy at the beginning of the process. Implying that Pablo or any other single person has the final say on canon is kind of silly. Aside from Kathy Kennedy I doubt there is anyone who could make major decisions and not have some form of check or balance in terms of how that effects the rest of the existing projects. Since the transition to Disney it seems that rather than have a single person make up the rules as it was with Lucas that they instead chose to develop a set of rules and everyone creating stories has to play by the same rules. This means if there is a decision as fans we don't agree with it kind of makes it hard to blame any singular person for that unless we know for certain the behind the scenes info of how the creative process works and who was involved in every meeting along the way.

I also don't really get why people want old stories recanonized as if that somehow would change something major in terms of reality. IF they make KOTOR canon what are the realistic changes that would occur? We may get some more merch but they are still making a new Revan figure. We may get more stories and progression of that timeline but SWTOR still exists and is ongoing. Having KOTOR canon won't solve any problems or create opportunity for new stories it will only limit them. The stories themselves were already previously so far apart on the timeline that whether they did or didn't actually happen seems kind of irrelevant. Them being canon or not really does nothing to change their value as stories. I still enjoy everything about the old republic period the same both before and after the canon reset.

If they develop a new game/comic/movie that tells the canon story of the old republic set 1000 years before a new hope and they redesign and reboot the entire revan and sith concept or if they redo Darth Bane and show us how that story actually happened so it lines up in context with Clone Wars how can that be a bad thing? The reason people like KOTOR so much is because it captured the essence of the Star Wars trilogy and put it into a game with some great new designs and characters. There is nothing stopping the current story group from doing the same thing except with a new take on the story or new characters that are just as memorable and engaging as the old ones. People somehow fall into this trap of nothing new being comparable to or possibly better than the old. I just played through KOTOR II a few days ago and that game both from a technical stand point and from a character/story standpoint has a ton of flaws and I think if the current story group wanted to take the good and throw out the bad from that story and rework it into something new it could definitely be improved. I'm actually going and reading the old Tales of the Jedi comics because of playing KOTOR II and I have never read them before and they are really great. The fact that something isn't canon or is canon has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the story or art. In 30 years they could reboot again and wipe Ahsoka Tano off the face of the planet, but that still won't make her any less of a great character or tarnish my enjoyment of the story and art I've already seen.

 

I don't at all get why OP seems to think that Hidalgo and Hidalgo in particular is supposed to have had something to do with KOTOR or with its place in the franchise. That's a pretty confused world view if you ask me. But I suppose we need someone to act as boogieman for the stuff we hate, eh. Do we really think he is deciding canon at a whim or is even in the position to? Here and there I've seen some people complain about him abusing his power or something by "spoiling" that Plagueis isn't Snoke. How does that even qualify as a spoiler?

And then it's "fans and their needs". You don't have "needs". You may consume and appreciate it or choose not to. You need to eat. You need to work. You don't need some fiction to be more "real" than another fiction. It's all not real to begin with. The power of Star Wars lies in its fiction and if all you care about is some kind of gospel or stamp of approval then you forget the purpose of stories and are gonna fail to enjoy them.

These days you see many posts here and on reddit and other places by a lot of (mostly new, I believe) fans who seem to feel that somehow something being canon will validate their being a fan more. It doesn't matter whether something's canon or not. Even less does it matter whether KOTOR is canon or not. It doesn't change a single thing. The game has no effect whatsoever on anything that's being told in the franchise in its current state. KOTOR isn't going to "matter" more just because someone puts a label on it. I played it and I liked it and that's why it matters. They can make your beloved Revan or HK-47 or whoever canon, but these characters aren't going to appear in any movie or TV series all the same.

I could understand some people having an issue with - let's say - Filoni, another screenwriter or person in a creative position for introducing those ****ing saber copters something into the story. But that's not the table I believe Hidalgo's usually sitting at.

 

your welcome.

 

mikeximus wrote

Back with AOTC it was made clear through various quotes from Lucas (Yes George Lucas himself not a LFL spokesman) that the Stormtroopers, were at least for the most part clones.

However, after, Disney takes over, the narrative changed. Mr. Hidalgo announced at one of the Con's that the debate had finally been settled, and that Stormtroopers were not clones... This was a shock, in that there had been for nearly 10 years evidence that the debate was over but with different results...

Only a Sith deals in absolutes, but seriously: Sometimes I have the feeling that the fanbase prefers clear cut and simple facts, more like "either - or" than "this and that" which is my assumption why such statements are made in the first place but should be taken with a bit of salt.

If we just look at the Death Star hangar scene from ANH above, we can clearly see stormtroopers with different body height, which does not suggest clones.
On the other hand were did all the surviving clones end up after the Clone Wars if not as stormtroopers?

I would like to believe that this was what George Lucas was aiming at.

Dave Filoni, on the other hand, has acknowledged the possibility that clones still serve as stormtroopers, when he recently speculated that the white-bearded guy participating in the Rebel commando on the Endor moon might have been Captain Rex.

After all, that was the guy selected to impersonate the scouttrooper outside the deflector shield bunker back door, possibly because of his familiarity with Imperial protocol and procedure (and had the other scouts asked him to remove his helmet, well, they just would have seen an older clone comrade).


My concern with the continuing Star Wars franchise and continuity and canon simply remains this:

Film makers, writers etc. should be of course encouraged and entitled to come up with new stories and characters to fill the Star Wars Universe with life.

But IMHO they should all respect and acknowledge the benchmarks set by George Lucas in his six films, regardless whether these are visual or based on information or conclusions based on the statements of the characters in the films (and preferably secondary sources provided and sanctioned by George Lucas).

Unless I'm mistaken that's the job of the Lucasfilm Story Group with Mr. Hidalgo being essentially the custodian of canon and continuity the others will usually consult.

Being mindful of this thread's title, my personal opinion will depend on how much the intentions of Mr. Lucas and the artists who contributed to his vision will be respected - or not.

 

I really like Pablo HIdalgo, the section in Rebels Recon were he answers fan's questions is what I like the most about that "show". I also liked his sense of humor (The Eopie Photo that he used for a time in twitter, for example, or that response about Palpatine killing Plagueis, I don't see that as bad attitude towards the fans at all).
Also, besides being relabed as Legends, The Essential Reader's Companion shows how competent he is. That book is excellent, and I can't imagine the ammount of work it took him to get it done. The Force Awakens Visual Dictionary also shows his respect for the overall Canon, linking small things here and there (like Razoo Qin-Fee's Zygerrian style faux hair cut, or Kylo's lightsaber style dating back to the Great Scourge of Malachor), so yeah, I think he is responsible with his job and does it very well.
I really appreciate what he does, and how he even uses part of his time to answer fans in twitter.
So thanks a lot, Pablo!

 

Pabawan

I don't know if you're still around or if you're gonna read this, but I'd love to get your perspective on something that can't be discussed on twitter for 140 reasons, if you know what I mean.

In the past few months, some people have been complaining that you act a bit dismissive of perfectly reasonable fan theories, like you're almost making fun of those who believe in them. I don't mean the "Snoke is Plagueis" kind of theories, but - to give you a concrete example - things like "Jyn Erso is Rey's mom". A lot of your tweets could be interpreted as mocking the idea. Sure, we don't really know anything about her yet, but she's the right age and does look a bit like Daisy.

Same for how you seem to react to the overwhelmingly popular "Rey is Luke's daughter" theory.

What do you think about this? Do you get annoyed by certain theories? Or is your sense of humor not coming across?

 

Okay, my opinion on Pablo Hidalgo is very positive. I like his insights in Rebels Recon and I find his Tweets some of the best on my feed.

 

Spoilers aside, he'd still be vilified because someone will be upset at the answers.

 

The deeply structural information that is released with needless, heedless levity reduces the number of tickets to Ep VIII that I will need.

Is it or is it not that Rey is a Rey Random vs a Rey Solo vs a Rey Skywalker?
Is it or Is it not that Snoke is Plagius

For either one, depending on the consumer, it's not a spoiler. It's not an intriguing and inventive entablature ornamenting the building of anticipation. It's a structural load-bearing member deep in the guts of that building, that has now been burned clean through. The movie going experience of collapsing that respective wavefunction When the music is flowing When the visuals are intense When the costumes are amazing When the special effects are top notch When the set design is to cry for When the editing is a gripping tractor beam When When When...That proper experience, in the theatre, is now utterly destroyed, for that question. I do not understand why that information had to be squandered on any media platform that is so much less the total experience than the movie going experience at the standard of Star Wars of before.

I have invested nothing in Snoke, myself, but my investment in the question of who is Rey took a dive after someone who shall remain anonymous felt, for absolutely no apparent reason or purpose, that it was within his regional governorship to demonstrate his canonical power on a planet's worth of discourse which had injured no shareholder value and had created no controversy. Considering that the mystery box was the guiding light of the construction of this set of anticipations, it is of question that the constructor of that value of anticipation should then destroy that anticipation right out in the open, without ceremony, in what I thought? what might be some kind of space of responsible custody of anticipation and buzz, and most importantly without a single ticket sale

If a movie is a product of its parts and not a sum of its parts, then, the destruction of anticipation, by the destruction of perfectly anticipation-generating wavefunction, means that the final experience of Ep VIII will have its final product divided by this part, instead of merely having its final sum diminished by the subtraction of this part.

Every reveal scene in Star Wars under the hand of Lucas has had maximum impact because he thought this out. If anyone has anecdotes about employees of LucasFilm spilling beans over who the strange old hermit was, or who the green puppet was, or who the guy in the black suit was, or who the masked captor of Chewbacca was, now's the time. The question of who Rey is, and who she is not, ranks with who Vader proved to be. A structural member of anticipation.

Always in motion is the future, but since my investment of anticipation in Ep VIII rested largely on the Rey question, and that is sunk like Bismarck, I now will need to see Ep VIII maybe 2 to 3 times fewer. I saw TFA 7 times to get my minimum necessary signal to noise ratio.

 

Definitely second the vote of confidence in Pablo, his success at his job, and his patience. Having been pulled into some a few twitter canoes where some people were beating dead horses and being nasty about it, i feel that Pablo has the patience of a saint. even for a Canadian, he has saintly patience.

 

Hernalt thing is, in those two examples you specifically bring up, nothing has been spoiled as to who those characters are, only who they are NOT. Plenty of people can and do have plenty of other theories, all of them valid. Okay, so you're (a general, hypothetical you being any random fan here) personal theory was that Snoke was in fact Plagueis... BUT he isn't, maybe it was an option once but it just ain't so. Doesn't mean there isn't a perfectly well thought out plan for the character, it only means that one of myriad theories is not in fact the case.

Shooting down one or two of the various theories of Rey's parentage doesn't remotely equate to revealing who Darth Vader really was ahead of time. A far more accurate analogy would be a popular fan theory of the time speculating Vader was really an Obi-Wan clone or whatever and someone in the know saying it wasn't the case.

 

Twitter isn't really the place to ask or answer questions about anything, quite honestly. It's for making announcements, links to items of interest and having brief conversations.

As far as the post about "obsessing about canon", one has to wonder about that in relationship to something like, say, the Essential Atlas. And I'm not stating that as a reference to the EU, but rather that type of product.

 

I think "obsessing about canon" would mean not taking things so seriously that you can't enjoy a specific product that doesn't fit "the guidelines." For example, the Shakespeare Star Wars books, any of the Lego Star Wars TV stuff, Jeffery Brown's books, any number of random toys, the Disney Infinity stuff, etc. (heck, even Legends itself), do not fit in canon, but insisting that they're not worth anyone's time because of this does them a disservice; canon is a way to organize stuff, know what material builds on itself to create a larger story, not to limit what other stories can be told on the side with the same building blocks.

To put it another way, if "in-canon" is the only way you judge something in a franchise like this (esp. of it being worth anything), you've missed the point of the item's existence in the first place.

 

says who?

 

Maybe, but from the chain of conversation coming off the initial post, it didn't seem that way.

 

I think that fans tend to take stuff too seriously (myself included). Also, from what I've seen of they man's Twitter feed, most of the complaints seem to take being thin-skinned to make in the first place.

 

And I don't think that there is necessarily anything wrong with that - I think every fandom should have a variant of the (real-life) Baker Street Irregulars. At the same time, there's nothing wrong with being a casual fan, either. Neither is 'better' than the other; it's all about what gives the most amount of satisfaction to the individual fan.
If we're talking about fans that take it much, much too seriously, there's the historical Saxtonites... but they emerged from the 'versus' community anyways, which can fairly toxic in of itself.

 

I was in touch with Dr. Curtis Saxton and Mike Wong in the early 2000's, but if you are referring to the "Star Wars versus Star Trek" community that would be the "Wongers", IIRC.

My impression had always been that Dr. Saxton was more in league with people like Dr. David West Reynolds, who approached "the world of Star Wars like ancient Rome or Egypt, considering it "a culture from another time and place" to explore" (Star Wars -The Visual Dictionary) and applied meticulous research using George Lucas canon sources.

In this spirit I consider "Saxtonite" rather as a compliment.

 

In that spirit, I don't have a problem with that designation. However, many of the self-described 'Saxtonites' here were not, so to speak, of the type of mind to 'discuss' anything. Almost all of them left years ago, however.

As far as Dr. Saxton goes, one of his last public statements talked about how he would've walked away from Inside The Worlds if he felt that it in any way contradicted his 'belief' that the Endor Moon was destroyed -

"I would have quit the project and demanded anonymity for my role if the irrationalists had succeeded in inserting anything that gave the impression that Endor is "saved". I consider this a "red line" issue of intellectual integrity. Non-negotiable. "

... which Pablo himself addressed in Insider:

"Though there are undoubtedly any number of physical models that would indicate that the detonation of a moon-sized object in the upper atmosphere of a forest planetoid would wreak untold havoc on the local ecology, that's not what happens. It was George Lucas' intent that the fuzzy little Ewoks and their Rebel friends live happily ever after, and nuclear winters don't fit into his model."

Don't get me wrong - I only own two of the ICSes, and they are the ones that Saxton contributed to. But the sort of playfulness of pseudo-academic research for a fictional setting was missing at the end, to say the least.

On the other hand, we've had some great discussions with authors on the boards here - especially those involving the creation of the Essential Atlas and The Essential Guide to Warfare.

 

Given that Complete Locations (the Inside the Worlds compilation) is being rereleased with TFA content:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/canon-complete-locations.50040385/

- I'm wondering what edits, if anything, it'll need to fit the newcanon.

The Death Star II size, I'm guessing - given that several newcanon works have used the pre-Saxton size.

Did Saxton manage to include anything that gave the impression that the Endor ecosystem was destroyed in that book? Or was it completely neutral on the issue?