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Lit [Fantasy Flight Games] Because it just keeps getting better

Discussion in 'Literature' started by The Loyal Imperial, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    No, it is not canon. It's "canon adjacent" at times (ie, they try to make it work with the growing canon), but only due to the efforts of FFG. Nothing they produce, game or book, is canon.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  2. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    As an addendum, if and when you visit Wookieepedia you may see them treating certain FFG produts as canon (referencing them on canon pages, etc). Don't be fooled - Iron Lord and Adm. Nick are correct. The Wook is... occasionally a little more lenient than it ought to be regarding the sources it accepts as canon.
     
  3. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Yeah, practically all the reference books are listed as "Legends," but you sometimes find "facts" from them on canon pages. The Dawn of Rebellion sourcebook is considered canon by the Wook, but I wouldn't consider it as such personally; the game has mixed canon and Legends together for so long I think it's best to just treat the game as such.
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  5. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
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  6. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015
    So info in the Dawn of Rebellion and Ghosts of Dathomir sourcebooks are incorrect? They speak a lot of details. Is this info all non-canon?

    Basically if DoR says the Death Star has 100,000 bars (drinking bars), its not canon, because Wookieepedia thinks so.
     
  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    My understanding is that Ghosts knowingly mixes canon and Legends materials. I couldn't find any Legends stuff in Dawn of Rebellion, but I'm not sure it was vetted either. Personally, I take all FFG stuff as not being within continuity (the line has always straddled the line between the two, anyways). After all, the point of an RPG isn't to provide canon info, but the tools to play games.
     
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  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Let's just leave it at that the FFG books aren't 'official canon'.

    Considering they're coming up on the end of their class books, and nothing new is really being announced for the RPG, I'm about to (figuratively) close the book on the Star Wars RPG. It wasn't as uneven as WOTC or as groundbreaking as WEG, but they were certainly high quality.

    Fortunately, the resurrection of Chaosium means that the Call of Cthulhu RPG is kicking into high gear, and I plan to get the long-awaited updated Masks of Nyarlathotep campaign.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
  10. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2015
    I just don't know. If a FFG sourcebook that covers things only in Disney canon, adds a new tidbit of useless info like how many bars the Death Star has or how much Kanan weighs, what are we supposed to do with this info? Wookieepedia records it as canon, but I don't know what to believe. I try to ignore FFG, but I love how the Star Wars Legacy card series named Kylo's freezing power as Force Stasis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  11. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    We don't have to do anything with this info. It's for RPGers

    Wookieepedia isn't the arbiter of canon. Believe everyone here telling you it's not canon.



    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
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  12. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    While not canon, you can still fully enjoy FFG's products. They work very hard to make their stuff work with the canon as it evolves, don't let canon status sway your enjoyment one way or another. :)

    --Adm. Nick
     
  13. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 5, 2015
    I’m a bit cuckoo and this stuff tends to bother me.
     
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  14. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Bitterest Ex-Mod star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Wookiepedia is run by nutty zealots who are clearly wrong. The FFG devs have said this and I've even asked @GrandAdmiralJello to sticky it. FFG do not produce canon books.

    The reason they'd add the number of bars or Kanan's weight is 100% for roleplaying purposes and 0% for strange people to unhealthily obsess over.
     
  15. Duguay

    Duguay Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2002
    There are signs that the Star Wars Roleplaying game 30th anniversary reprint has been freed up from whatever difficulty it was having. People are receiving emails that their pre-orders are being shipped.
     
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  16. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    All- let's not resort to name calling. You can agree or disagree with the folks at the Wookieepedia, but name calling is petty and not in keeping with forum policies. Friendly reminder, repeat offenses will be dealt with accordingly. Thanks!

    --Adm. Nick
     
  17. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    ]I'm working on a more formal text on the subject, but I'll say now that ultimately a licensed work set in a fictional universe, even deemed 'Not official canon' by an IP holder, means as much as you want to ascribe to it.
     
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  18. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015
    Yeah I want to create my own canon roleplaying Jedi game but I’ll never get the means to do that.
     
  19. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I kinda think it's just as well not to create a "canon" RPG; the very nature of the game is based on not being canon (how would the IP unfold if you were in charge of shaping its future) and since the books are marketed to more select faction of the fanbase, it seems a little unfair to limit information from the wider audience the way it wouldn't be with tie-in novels, which can have broader appeal.

    I remember back in Legends, that occasionally they had retcons and continuity corrects in random RPG books, magazines, and blog articles, which is fine if you can find the sources, but always seemed a little like cheating, since they were so under the radar. I also can't count the number of times that the old RPG systems, mostly the Wizards D20 stuff, created continuity errors that the Wook would try to reconcile rather than just being able to say: "RPG fluff should be overwritten. I also found the conceit of the West End Games stuff that the fluff were historical records written by a researcher who could be proven wrong if a gamemaster wanted to divert from the written page a little unneeded; there doesn't need to be a justification for why the campaign has differences from the fluff accounted for "in-universe."

    Just my two cents and I am speaking as someone who does like RPGs of my favorite franchises a lot and finds the fluff fun to read.
     
  20. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015

    It just annoys me. If they have FFG info on the Death Star's structure and tech specifications; I'd like to count on it to be "real".

    I know that Roleplaying games aren't true stories. I just care about the concepts, not the random customizable events of every game. My RPG would introduce a generic Jedi character. He wouldn't be canon but his powers I developed would be.
     
  21. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Fair enough.
     
  22. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 19, 2015
    We don't always get that reassurance even from the reference books that are canon. What's Death Star II's diameter, again? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
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  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    You can try to ground your game in "facts" (if such a thing exists for fantasy) -- I prefer that too -- but at the end of the day, you're going to have to make things up. That's part of playing a RPG -- there are never enough facts out there because you're creating your own story as you go.

    Just think of FFG as providing you more tools to provide that flavor you're making up. Your hard canon verifiable facts are going to be in the movies, shows, canon novels, and whatever. But you still have to invent things -- and FFG's just helping you do that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  24. Yunzabit

    Yunzabit Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2015
    No I understand that. I understand that all actions that will happen in the game are made up. What I’m talking about is CONTENT. Knights of Fate introduced a new sentient species. Is that canon, would be my question.

    Pablo Hidalgo can’t understand this. His addressal of FFG has been frustratingly vague.
     
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  25. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Don't think of that sentient species as any different than one that you just made up yourself. It's only there to be used in games, if you want it.

    You're not going to get a better answer than that. Don't think that Pablo or anybody else doesn't get what you want them to tell you. They understand exactly what you're asking, they just can't provide that information for you. That's just not what canon is for -- it's a tool for storytellers, it's not there to for fans to conclusively determine and catalogue which set of made up facts about a made up universe is "real" and which one is "not."

    I get that this matters to you. People can engage with the material in whichever way has meaning for them. But be that as it may it's just not going to work out to your satisfaction and you'll have to get used to that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018