FAQ Proposal: Expanded Universe Fallacy Debunkation

Nota Bene: This is a re-post of an article that first appeared one day ago, over in the primary Literature forum. This has been modified and expanded ever so slightly, thanks to input from YoungJedi11, The2ndQuest, and dp4m, among others.

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Having gone 'round and 'round time and time and time again with many hardcore purists -- as well as the simple, uninformed unwashed -- over in many of the film forums, I've lately found myself having to compose and recompose many of the same responses to disputes that arise whenever some gleep decides to assert some unsubstantiated parvenu claim stating Lucas's disavowal/annihilation of whichever Expanded Universe story is au courant to attack at that moment, in one of his new films.

Apart from reaching through my screen and ploinking them upside their heads for not doing their homework to begin with, I'd like to propose the following time-saving resource that all of us can draw upon whenever a situation like the above arises again:

A "reservoir," or repository of commonly-disputed storylines/George Lucas edicts/editorial positions concerning the Expanded Universe that can serve as an access-point for people to cut-and-paste a quick, yet detailed, response into another forum, thereby saving much time, sweat, and oceans of spilled munchkin-blood from having to re-write the answers of the past.

Again and again. And again. And again.

Topics could include:

• Boba Fett's Origins
• Dating of the Clone Wars
• C-3PO's Origins
• Sio Bibble's "Formation of the Republic" Comments and the Sith War, etc
• Coruscant, Timothy Zahn, and the Prequels: "The Chicken, or the Egg??"
• The Death Star's True Construction-Origins
• History of the Mandalorians and the Jango Fett Controversy
• Darth Vader: "Dark Lord of the Sith" Before The Phantom Menace?
• Owen Lars and Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Brothers or Soul-Bruthas?"
• Whether or Not Dark Empire Contradicts Lucas's "Balance of the Force" Philosophy
• Jedi Marriage in the EU and the Prequels
• Lightsaber Colors: Filmic and Non-Filmic
• Tatooine: Two Moons, or Three?
• The Stormtrooper/Clonetrooper Similarity Debate

Such an FAQ thread (with hot-topic answers drawn up by a "coalition of the willing") could be maintained at the entrance of the Literature Forum with the other FAQs there, and could allay a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the future.

Thoughts on this idea...??

 

Nice.

 

Great idea

 

That'd be good. What's more, it'd be a cut/paste job since all of the above have been explained in detail somewhere.

 

Very interesting proposal, Leto II. Very interesting indeed....

I think you explained the idea well and to a very full extent, and therfore I have to say I support what you said muchly. Not only would it aide in cutting down on asking those questions and debating upon those topics, but it would also provide an outlet to which such purist EU contradiction seekers could, well..."seek"..


Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day

 

I like the idea, Leto.


And I have visions of it becoming an EU Defenders Textbook...

"These are the kinds of posts you want, my young apprentice. Not flames."

*has visions of Rogerian dabate essays* Argh!

 

I love this idea.

 

It would be very usefull, since we seem to have the same arguements over and over and over and over again.....

 

It's a good idea, but it won't stop the Purists. Plus, they won't like it if we use information that has been deemed by Moderators as EU as evidence in forums such as 3SA. Purists' arguments won't change, and it's probably easier to type rather than copy/paste, even if it is for the umpteenth time. So, in conclusion: Good idea, but it's unnecessary, and probably won't work out anyway. Sorry.

 

It's a great idea, and I'd love to see it happen.

 

It's a good idea, but it won't stop the Purists. Plus, they won't like it if we use information that has been deemed by Moderators as EU as evidence in forums such as 3SA. Purists' arguments won't change, and it's probably easier to type rather than copy/paste, even if it is for the umpteenth time. So, in conclusion: Good idea, but it's unnecessary, and probably won't work out anyway. Sorry.

Some interesting points, and ones well worth considering, but I think that, first, if someone does (hypothetically) use the Expanded Universe as evidence in a film-forum, it'll more likely come from a recognized and valid source such as The Approaching Storm or Cloak of Deception...stories conceived with Lucas's direct input; or at least moreso than other ones that I've seen used (or rather, the ones we know we can get away with using).

And secondly (and this is sort of my spiteful inner-bastard coming out, here ), eight or nine times out of ten anyhow, the stock Purist response to any well-reasoned argument thrown by us at them is some twitty, stupid little variation on "The EU is WRONG" mantra...meaning that we, too, could play the "Broken-Record" game if we so please. Only backed up with hard facts, instead of blind, vainglorious creator-worship.

I've talked already with several people who are very interested in coming up with articles for the project, and please do continue to post your own ideas here! Glad to see such interest in it all.

 

I think it's a great idea! Let me know if I can help!

 

I think we could probably add the whole "Bria is Han's soulmate therefore Bria must die" complaint many purists have. They think it undermines Leia.

 

Consider it added.

And Guinastasia...you have some familiarity with Certain Person(s) Whom I Shan't Name over in some of the "Mara Jade/Bria Tharen Hate Threads," right? If you can come up with several of their (her) stock polemics and gripes over the alleged "elevation" of these characters over the Lucas-created ones, we might set out developing counter-arguments to some of them.

 

The Death Star's True Construction-Origins

Aha! An area of my expertise...

May I contribute to this FAQ in the specified area of the Death Star?



Shoot me a PM about if such an article is available...


Ken Kenobi- And you have a nice day

 

If you can come up with several of their (her) stock polemics and gripes over the alleged "elevation" of these characters over the Lucas-created ones, we might set out developing counter-arguments to some of them.

Mara
-The authors over mention her hair
-Luke only thinks of boffing her
-She is desrcibed as gorgeous
-Everyone thinks she is beautiful
-Leia thinks she is braver than herself

 

That would be a good idea. So much easier to post a link than to type the same old responses over and over again.

 

The Certain Person Who Shan't Be Named doesn't have an argument behind her "elevation of pet characters" theory; it basically consists of "The EU is a showcase, and it is wrong."

 

Mara
-The authors over mention her hair
-Luke only thinks of boffing her
-She is desrcibed as gorgeous
-Everyone thinks she is beautiful
-Leia thinks she is braver than herself

"Check," "check," "check," "check," and "check." Some of these seem to be personal chestnuts that ONLY certain indivduals seem to believe exist in the stories, that only they can see. (For one reason or another. ) But they are repeated often enough that many newbies might mistake prolificness and "authoritarianism" for "fact."

Repeat the Big Lie often enough, and sooner or later, people start to believe in it.

Does anyone having special attachment or concern over these points wish to be given the job of writing up the "definitive" collective reponse to them? If so, great...someone who's as equally fanatically passionate as the "haters" seem to be might be the best ones to do something like this one.

 

The Certain Person Who Shan't Be Named doesn't have an argument behind her "elevation of pet characters" theory; it basically consists of "The EU is a showcase, and it is wrong."

Right on, and I think it was someone in here (JediMasterAaron, was it...??) who quipped that her "standard" response to arguments is basically equivalent to her shutting her eyes, plugging her fingers in her ears, and singing "The Star-Spangled Banner" REEAAAL loudly.

 

One thing I will say-let's NOT let this get personal. I get annoyed with You Know Who too, but I also think she's in general an okay person-I get along with her otherwise.

However, let's not make veiled hints like that-it will only fuel flame wars, mmmkay?

Like we're not supposed to mention certain sites? Like that. Don't do it.

Let's just keep everything as "certain purists".

Oh, and I hate Bria Tharen too. But um, not the EU. She's just one character I don't like.

 

Okay, sorry about that -- when you mentioned a few things earlier, I think that the "Mara/Bria" controversy was the first thing to pop into my head at that second, and I needed to mention [A Certain Person's] past posting-history as an entrée into this in order to illustrate what I had in mind. (Won't mention her ever again, from now on. Cool? )

Techniques used by "certain purists" can be fairly educational though, too, and can give us good examples of what we should be on the lookout for, and how *not* to react in certain situations. Any ideas on how responses to some of those allegations might be phrased (being somewhat subjective, and all)?

 

It's a good idea, but it will only work for topics that you can find definitive responses from Teh Man or LFL Biggies on. Without that, most Purists won't bat an eye and tell you that "the EU makes the baby Luuuuuuke cry."

Unfortunately, LFL doesn't comment on those things very often, seeming to prefer that you figure it out for yourself (personal canon). But, there are exceptions. Didn't someone recently give a 'possible' reason for the Boba Fett/Jaster Mereel issue? (Ie- Jaster Mereel is an urban legend.)

Anyway, if explanations are out there, they probably won't be easy to find. I suggest asking The Gatherer or others that work in LFL's Books section.

 

That's a good idea.

As far as Jaster Mareel goes, I'm not sure if I read it somewhere or I just think I did, but basically the idea that stories about Boba Fett's past are all rumors taken to be fact. So a story about him once being a Journeymen Protector named Jaster Mareel is false, but is believed to be true because so little is known about Boba Fett's past.

A similar real life example:
I'm currently in an elective course for honors students that is examining the role and image of the western gunfighter in American culture. Most noted gunfighters have stories surrounding them that were/are believed to be true, when in fact they are not. Billy the Kid supposedly shot and killed one man for each of the 21 years he was alive. In reality, he can only be accounted for the deaths of about three men, with another one or two possible kills to his name. There are other gunfighters I could use for examples as well, but I won't bore you guys with details.

My point is, is that just because elements of Boba Fett's past are said to be true, that is not necessarily so.

Another defense for the whole issue is that we have yet to know about Boba Fett's entire life. There could be a period in his life where he assumes the identity of Jaster Mareel for some reason, and that later returns to using his real name. The truth is, we don't know yet. His entire life is not yet accounted for.