Lit Fascism in Star Wars

I really like this video even if it's a bit too long and reminds me a lot of Lindsey Ellis' video about the Ideology of the First Order. Basically, it's two guys talking at length about the Empire and it's roots as a bad guy along with how the Expanded Universe has way too much of an apologetic tone for them.

Some highlights include:

* Disney's daily stormtrooper parades
* The large number of Imperial novels currently out
* The Aftermath scene where Sloane talks about slavery being something she's okay with versus the horrifying conditions on Kashkyyk
* Karen Traviss
* Bloodline's discussion between Casterflo and Leia about the Death Star
* The Clerks scene and how it's become relevant

Lots of good stuff here.

 

Thanks man, me and my friends had a lot of fun making it.

 

I like the discussion over the fact the Space Nazis have included a number of African American characters in the canon like Rae Sloane, Ciena Ree, and Finn.

 

Oh yeah our guest Sydpart 2 has issues with that...I'd be reminisced if I didn't share his channel as well Geeky Gentlmen; check that you it has a lot of topics on various geek and political issues https://www.youtube.com/user/Sydpart2/videos

 

Ever do anything on the Expanse?

 

Expanse? I'm afraid I've never heard of it

 

I miss the days when people actually typed an OP instead of just posting a video.

 

Well I would but I was hoping people would watch the video.

 

It's the best television series since Firefly and on its 3rd season. It's also an incredibly popular series of novels.

Intricate political stuff.

 

To quote Captain America....I'll put it on the list

But looks cool.

Also sorry people for the convo going on here if you have anything to say on the matter feel free of course, open thread after all.

 

Enjoying this. Too bad it doesnt have Solo to inform it's discussion. Just that part on Mimban is a great refutation of the Empire, and military imperialism.

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I think there's a good argument the Empire being human supremacist and not white supremacist is a clever fix. Because if the Empire is white supremacist then it's giving a real life bunch of barves more screen time as well as their own cool toys. However, if it's alien supremacist and has people of color inside it then it not only serves the argument that the empire is bad, it ruins the "fantasy" for any Alt-Right Imperial fanboys. Rae Sloane is a villain but she's a cool villain and she's a woman of color.

53:00 is the best.

The sheer hate of the Fel Empire is awesome.

I find it no surprise Han Solo got knocked down to cannon fodder in a week. I also like how the Empire has apparently destroyed Corellia's economy.

 

I do believe it is essential to have the Empire be anthropocentric/human supremacist, if not white supremacist. If you're going to have space Nazis they need to have something ideologically that correlates to Nazism and human supremacy manages that while fitting the setting. Mas Amedda and Thrawn should be exceptions that prove the rule, rather than breaking the rule.

Now, i have read neither the Thrawn novel or comic, so i am not clear on where our Chiss grand admiral stands in the Imperial humanocracy but i think it would be a shame of that aspect of Legends were done away with. Non-human collaborators have never been a problem, but the Imperial hierarchy lacking disdain for non-humans seems wrong because of the Nazi imagery.

Imperial speciesism also opens up new thought avenues beyond simple parallels with white supremacy. Due to non-human sentients being depicted as essentially thr same socially as human beings the racial parallels are obvious. Oddly, though, the actual question of speciesism is obscured but still present. Is anthropocentrism/speciesism something to question IRL? Between the concepts of the Force and the evils of Imperial speciesism i did question speciesism IRL and came out vegan.

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I think the specism is important but I think it's important to have the Empire be multi-ethnic and non-sexist.

Why?

Because we don't need to give RL prejudices fuel in our children's toys. Because seriously, the Empire's cool factor is part of what makes them effective villains and just giving air time to them is giving the RL white supremecists more ammunition. Whereas if you have Rae Sloane as the Head of the Empire, Ciena Ree, and Grand Moff Randd (who looks like Will Smith as an older man) then you undercut the RL white supremecists who irritate the hell out of me with their presence in the fandom.

It's like, "Even the Empire thinks your beliefs are stupid."

While keeping the anti-prejudice metaphor.

"We love our fellow humans, hate the Wookiees."

And yes, again, kark the Fel Empire. They are Imperial apologia as much as I love Legacy, I totally wanted to see them torn down.

 

I have to second Charles' recommendation - utterly brilliant, think you'd like it.

 

I can agree with that. Even as a South Asian First Order bridge officer makes me a bit uncomfortable. It does give less air to neo-fascists that would glom on to their ideas being "endorsed" by popular media. I dont want Tarkin pontificating upon why light-skinned humans are better than dark-skinned humans, who are better than Chiss, who are better than the "animal" aliens, who are themselves tiered in value based upon how close or distant they are to humans biologically.

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Still, it is rather peculiar how much Disney is going about to diversify the Empire but not creating that many new Rebellion/Republic/Resistance leads.

Mind you, we should see if Will Smith is willing to do a second Solo movie as Grand Moff Randd.

 

Yes, I found the "First Order is awesome" roleplay hilarious...until I realized actual Nazis were joining the fandom to say it.

Then I backeddddddddddd the hell away.

 

I don't think they're Imperial apologia. The Fel Empire is full of terrible people itching for an opportunity to be terrible, who betray all their ideals the moment an opportunity to do so presents itself.

 

I had an issue when I discovered the original plan for Legacy was that Gar Stazi had no real role and neither did the Jedi. It was going to be about the Imperial Knights and Roan Fel's resistance to the One Sith. Mind you, I also noted in the fandom that a lot of people defended all the things we now know were foreshadowing the fact he was falling to the Dark Side like when he had the entire crew of the traitor ship executed as a lesson to the One Sith.

"They were all betrayers under a flag of surrender! They deserved to die!"

I did feel Marasiah Fel was underutilized in the story, though. I was hoping she'd be the breakout character but the story barely had room for Cade's story arc.

 

I think the fantastic thing about the story was the Empire realizing that no matter what they can't help but be the Empire.

 

True, that's my view and I like to think the ending is the Empire of Legacy is dissolved into the Galactic Alliance.

Other people are like, "The Galactic Alliance is now ruled by Emperess Marasiah"

(who does a terrible job in what little we see of it)

"OFF WITH THEIR HEAD!"

 

I do enjoy that nucanon has co-signed Legacy's conviction that the Empire, if seeking to become the Empire again, will compulsively seek out a sorceror-king and follow him.